Question:
>> Continental ended up dropping their price to $297 and I bought it on > their web page with no commission and 1,000 bonus miles. >Let’s say you decide to cancel your trip the next day. >Many agents could cancel it and get your money back >Try that with one you bought directly from CO.
All you have to do is call CO and cancel it. Airlines don’t publicize it, but any air tix you buy online in the US can be cancelled without penalty within 24 hours. TAs used to have a remarkably long time, something like a week, to report sales to the airlines, which meant that if you changed your mind and they hadn’t reported the ticket yet, they could just tear it up and cancel the reservation. Now that everything’s online, that particular window is a lot narrower. For complex trips, a good TA is worth every penny. If I were planning a RTW trip I wouldn’t dream of doing it myself. But for simple trips within the US, it’s extremely unlikely that a TA will find anything you couldn’t have found yourself on Orbitz or Travelocity and Expedia. These days, what with web fares (almost all of which are on Orbitz) and negotiated Fares (often on Expedia and sometimes Travelocity) the online sites are more likely to have fares the TA can’t get. – John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 330 5711 Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >[snip] > My wife and I hire a cleaning lady to come to our house once a week > and do a deep clean. Yes, we could do it ourselves and save the cost. > But in terms of time saved, it is worth the money. I get my clothes > laundered, and I always pay extra to have them fold my shirts instead > of leaving them on hangers. Is it worth it? For me, yes. I found it > was taking me 20 minutes a week to fold my shirts before packing them > for my next trip. 20 minutes > $10 USD. I’ll spend the money and be > glad for the 20 minutes of my life back. > This is sorta it. There are jobs just big enough that you could >do yourself, but it is "worth it" to pay someone else. Small >jobs, no. Gonna book a ticket from point A to B on some large >volume, highly competed routes, that you’ve done before, yeah >do it yourself. Assembling an open jaw itinerary at the last >minute to a place you can barely find on a map? Might make >good use of a GOOD TA. >[snip] > I notice from time to time in this forum that this person or that will > describe how they have been cheated, crapped-on, or otherwise done in > by an airline, hotel, or some other travel-related service or vendor. > And of course that’s no fun. But I have also often noticed that these > are the same people who scrounge for the absolute lowest price on > EVERYTHING, regardless of imputed quality, and then complain when it > turns out to be crap. I mean, if you book travel on the Grace L. > Ferguson Airline & Storm Door Repair Company and stay at the Chalk > Outline Hotel in Hell’s Kitchen, NY and spend less than $20, yes, > you’re probably going to have a rotten time. >[snip] > A bit harsh, but I know what you mean. At some point you have >to ask yourself how an outfit can/would afford to offer such a >"good deal". The possible answers should be a hint. I don’t defend >outfits that "oversell" their products. But there is the concept >of "you get what you pay for" which should be at least a guide. >There is the concept of "value" which is different than either >"cheap" or "top of the line". It is a balance between quality and >cost. At some point what you lose isn’t worth the $5 you save. >And equally, at some point, what you gain ain’t worth the $50 it >will cost. I find it true in Wine, Women, and WN. There is an >expression that the last 10% takes 90% of the effort. I find >in cost, the first $5 extra gets you the most increase in quality. >i.e. don’t get the cheapest place, get say the 2nd cheapest place. >They’re charging more for something and you’ll probably want it.
Interesting thread; sort of a Rohrshach of human nature. Since I’m not a frequent or business traveler, and since I definitely do not think it’s "part of the fun" when planning a trip, as one poster opined, I’m staying with my TA. She’s honest and resourceful. I can call on her for help whether I’m having problems in or out of the country. Ex: She got me a rock-bottom last-minute fare when I had to rush to a funeral. At that time, I had plenty on my mind except trolling the ‘Net for affordable flights! Basically, it’s a personality thing, as well as a cost-benefit ratio thing. Some people need to "win" even if it only gains them a few bucks. Some people prefer to spend the few bucks and devote their time to other pursuits. There’s no value judgment here; whatever blows your horn. — Traveler
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> That was ONE of Bill’s many points about himself, but obviously > not quite true for himself either. among other things, had he spent > only half of his rec.travel.air posting time on arranging trips, > he probably could have arranged all of his own trips, and also > probably could have done a better job than his TA. :)
Ah, but I cannot control WHEN I will be given an assignment by my boss. If it was always Tuesday at tea time, then no problem, I can budget time for setting up travel. But it comes in dribs and drabs – one week I get an assignment to book several week’s travel, another time I get a call at 3:30 on a Friday afternoon to be somewhere the following Monday – which means leaving on Sunday, of course. If I’m at a customer site – there will be no taking time to pick through web-based travel (and no posting to r.t.a. at that moment either). A quick phone call or e-mail to my TA and I can get on with the work at hand without worries. She’ll sort it out quick enough. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
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snip > agent back to make changes or additions. Several of us got > together and went to have a meeting with the travel director > locally to discuss this change. The very first question was "why?". > Why had they prevented us from contacting particular agents. > The answer, given with a straight face, was because for example, > of the 6 they had locally, "3 of them were getting the vast majority > of the calls". No one was surprised and they asked him if it occurred > to him why that was. He answered that he had no clue. (Sorta > a prophetic answer). When it was explained to him that it was > because the other 3 were incompetent, his reply was "well, I > can’t do anything about that".
The correct response was "Then perhaps we need to see about doing something about you." FFM
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> >How hard is that? Of course, our TA knows me, and knows what I like >and dislike. She’s great. > Are you able to use her for personal trips (or if you become no longer > associated with the company)? Sounds like you have a really good travel > agent, much better than some of the travel agent stories that I’ve heard > (e.g. travel agent did not inform the customer of an airline schedule > change that resulted in the customer missing the flight).
Yes, she is allowed (and does) assist my wife and I with personal trips. Obviously, her ‘real job’ with my company takes precedence, but if she has the time, she is allowed to help me with personal travel, and she does. In addition, she has been kind enough to hook me up with special deals that only TA’s get, such as ‘free rental car days’ that I can use for the obvious purpose. I also get coupons from the rental car companies, but they are often impossible to use, due to restrictions laid on them by the rental agencies. Hers are ‘trump’ cards. My wife and I went to NYC recently to attend the retirement ceremony of her uncle, who is a ‘heavy hitter’ in NYC. We flew on FF miles from HP (and they upgraded us to FC on the way out, despite the ‘no upgrade’ policy for economy FF tickets). Couldn’t get it on the way back, though. My TA gave me 3 ‘free day’ coupons for Hertz, we stayed at my brother-in-law’s house in Stony Brook, NY. We ended up paying for food and my tux rental while we where there – very little else! We met a few people while we were there… http://www.growlery.com/waldorf/Bill_and_Ed_Koch.jpg It is good to have a dedicated travel agent who also happens to be a great person!
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> > I travel extensively for work – over 130 segments last year. We used to use a > travel agent, then went to booking exclusively on-line. I don’t miss the TA at > all. In the cases where I did have a problem, 100% of the time it was the TA’s > fault, and in all of those cases I ended up on the phone to the airline > anyway. We have had no booking problems at all with booking on-line, and on > the rare occasion that we need something a little too complex for the Airline > websites a quick call to the airline has sorted it out. [snip] > I don’t dispute your conclusion that you find a web-based service > better for your needs, but in my case, my experience was the exact > opposite! > Anybody else?
[snip] We’ve got "Navigant" and mine sits squarely between both of you. They long ago got rid of agents you could call individually [1]. So we can’t get the kind of individual service you are experiencing. They have slowly been installing a web based system much like you describe except that it isn’t quite as dictatorial. It does now limit what hotels you can book, but it does have some ability to allow exceptions to the rules (basically, it warns you that you might not get compensated but books it anyway) Airline tickets are a slightly different story. It "offers" you the preferred airlines but does show you some other unpreferred options. The real problem with it is that it is SLOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW. It can take upwards of 2 hours to book everything. And it frequently makes "mistakes". Flights are "unavailable" which aren’t. Hotels don’t even exist, until you hit "refresh" on the browser. It booked me two different hotels on the same night, in a city to which I DIDN’T travel, and didn’t book the city I did travel to. (Even though the printed itinerary showed the correct bookings). So, now what I tend to do is the worst of both worlds. I check out all my arrangements using the web, but then call the travel service to get a human to actually make the bookings. Basically this assures me that I’m getting a hotel where I want with the facilities I desire and that I am picking the best and most convienent flights, yet avoids the "glitches" that are associated with the software. [1] This process was precious. At one time, you could find out the phone number of each individual travel agent in the service. There were 6 onsite, and an a large number more at two national call centers. I had nabbed one from the national center, but there were 3 locally that ALOT of people liked. You’d get to know their work schedules. Occasionally you’d get busy signals so you’d just call back later. They had phone mail and you could often leave simple messages which would handle almost everything. Then they took it away. All calls went through an automatic system which distributed the calls nationally to whomever was available next. There was no way to contact a particular agent directly. Even once a trip was booked, you couldn’t get that same agent back to make changes or additions. Several of us got together and went to have a meeting with the travel director locally to discuss this change. The very first question was "why?". Why had they prevented us from contacting particular agents. The answer, given with a straight face, was because for example, of the 6 they had locally, "3 of them were getting the vast majority of the calls". No one was surprised and they asked him if it occurred to him why that was. He answered that he had no clue. (Sorta a prophetic answer). When it was explained to him that it was because the other 3 were incompetent, his reply was "well, I can’t do anything about that".
Response:
> I think that Bill has hit on part of the answer.
to arrive at his Axiom (which is impossible to argue against): > I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, and you can’t just > issue a blanket statement like "Travel Agents are always great" or > "Travel Agents always suck".
Just to throw in a couple of counterpoints to the discussion, > Some folks travel so much that they cannot possibly invest the > time necessary to arrange their trips.
That was ONE of Bill’s many points about himself, but obviously not quite true for himself either. among other things, had he spent only half of his rec.travel.air posting time on arranging trips, he probably could have arranged all of his own trips, and also probably could have done a better job than his TA. :) > TAs are necessary for them.
Not necessarily. > For others the time spent searching and considering alternatives > is part of the fun of the trip.
Much truth to THAT! Besides, haven’t you been in situations in which the time spent telling your TA (or assistant or whatever) your "problem", you could have solved the problem yourself already. These and other points discussed in this thread seem to center, correctly, on two main factors: TIME and MONEY. Ah, but those are arbitrary units with very elastic measuring sticks. That’s why "eggsheads" in .edu, such your math.cl.nh.edu, correctly captures the essence of the problem by a "utility function of money", and a "utility function of time", and other non-monetary units that enter into an informed decision process into comparable units of widgets for the person analyzing his problem. For the simple idea of what a "utility function" is about, just imagine you draw a graph in which the vertical axis measures your "happiness index" (from 0 to 100, say), and the horizontal axis measures your personal wealth, in units of dollars, say. You’ll quickly realize that NOBODY’s utility function of money is linear. For almost everyone, it’ll start nearly constant, from 0 to a certain threshold t1, starts increasing at a non-linear rate until some threshold t2, where the function will level off again. But EVERYONE has a different t1 and t2, which is why different folks express different reasons why they use and don’t use TAs. In other words, $100 have different "utility" and "values" to you and me, compared to that for Bill Gates, I am quite sure. Which is one "egghead" way of expressing your Theorem, resulting from The Bill Mattock’s Axiom: Matthews Theorem: > The answer is that TAs are no longer necessary. If you can afford the > cost and find a competent one they make it simpler. Your choice.
Mattocks’ Corollary 1: > Anyway, back on topic – for me, TA’s are invaluable, worth much more > than the few bucks I (or my company or customer, more likely) might > have saved.
Mattocks’ Corollary 2: > But if you’re a one-time flier who is both able and > willing to search high and low for the best bucket-shop consolidator > ticket possible and pay in S&H green stamps or trade for Beanie Babies > or something, then no, a TA will probably not be of much value to you.
It’s all easily seen or explained by the notion of "utility" of time and money. — Bob. P.S. My "utility" for a sleep and rest is pretty steep right now. :^)
Response:
> I can certainly see using a TA for something like a combination > round-the-world cruiseairfare trip of a lifetime. But for normal business > travel I don’t see value for money.
I think I agree with you with one exception; there is ‘business travel’ and there is traveling for business. Some of us are hard-core road warriors – that’s our entire life. Sales, professional services, technicians, indie consultants/contractors and your odd lawyer or doctor thrown in. For us, there may not be "value for money" unless we’re willing to give up an even bigger chunk of our lives to get this done – and many of us don’t get to do this on ‘company time’. Maybe the indies – they have a different point of view – the dollar they save comes out of their own pockets. I could certainly see the value in doing your own shopping in that case. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
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>How hard is that? Of course, our TA knows me, and knows what I like >and dislike. She’s great.
Are you able to use her for personal trips (or if you become no longer associated with the company)? Sounds like you have a really good travel agent, much better than some of the travel agent stories that I’ve heard (e.g. travel agent did not inform the customer of an airline schedule change that resulted in the customer missing the flight). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
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> That’s interesting! Our company has an in-house American Express > Travel One TA, and we recently were told to start using the Amex > online service as an alternative, in case the TA was overloaded or we > needed something on a weekend or whatever. > Well. I tend not to like it at all! In fact, I’ve quit using it > altogether. > . . . > I don’t dispute your conclusion that you find a web-based service > better for your needs, but in my case, my experience was the exact > opposite!
A few months ago we were told to start the Amex Online thing too. I can’t stand it. I agree with your complaints, and it always found me horrible fares (we work from grant funding so the more I spend on airfare the less I have for hotel, equipment, other projects, etc.). But that doesn’t mean web-based ticket systems are worthless in general. It just means the Amex thing ain’t that hot. I have decent luck with some others (principally Travelocity and Orbitz). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
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>I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, and you can’t just >issue a blanket statement like "Travel Agents are always great" or >"Travel Agents always suck".
Depends on the TA as well. I once worked for a company which had a small travel department. They even kept a stock of currencies of the places we were likely to go to. There was one particular lady who worked there who had an almost eidetic memory. Having once put a name to a face, it was there forever. Need a business visa for Oman, Libya, Pakistan? Sorted. Need to go to SAH tomorrow, without enough time to apply for a visa? No problem. Then the company was taken over and the travel department was outsourced to a major UK travel company. I recall walking past and hearing the baffled tones of one TA asking another: "Where the hell is Bardufoss anyway?". It became better and safer for us to book our own travel. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/
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> I travel extensively for work – over 130 segments last year. We used to use a > travel agent, then went to booking exclusively on-line. I don’t miss the TA at > all. In the cases where I did have a problem, 100% of the time it was the TA’s > fault, and in all of those cases I ended up on the phone to the airline > anyway. We have had no booking problems at all with booking on-line, and on > the rare occasion that we need something a little too complex for the Airline > websites a quick call to the airline has sorted it out.
Kevin: That’s interesting! Our company has an in-house American Express Travel One TA, and we recently were told to start using the Amex online service as an alternative, in case the TA was overloaded or we needed something on a weekend or whatever. Well. I tend not to like it at all! In fact, I’ve quit using it altogether. First – it is SLOOOOW. Sometimes by the time it has ’searched’ for a flight to meet my needs, it has also timed out and requires me to log in again. Infuriating! Second – it was programmed to meet my company’s ‘travel requirements’, including our internal policies and so on. Sounds great, right? It knows all about what our policies are, so we we can’t accidentally violate them. Nah. Like any machine, it is too literal. Told to prefer American over any other airline (because our company gets some small percentage refund by having them as our ‘Officially Preferred’ airline), it will offer me $2,000 American tickets over $500 United tickets, and three connections over one, because our company PREFERS American. If I decline to take the flight it offers, it will tell me that it is sending e-mail to my boss for approval before it issues the itinerary – and on a weekend, that’s not going to happen, so there goes my emergency flight that I needed that same day. It single-mindedly insists that I take a $49 Best Western over a $79 Marriott Courtyard, even though the Courtyard is closer to the customer, has high-speed internet access (important in my business), and is well within our company’s policy of max $150 per night hotels. It will not let me ‘over ride’ the choices it offers me. It will not even LET me have a hotel room if there are no hotels in the area that are less than $150 per night – which leaves out hotels in San Francisco and Manhattan (well, maybe not nowadays, but back then when I tried it). In other words – no hotel for you, sucka! And my company will not reimburse any travel costs for itins NOT made through our travel agent or travel agent web-thing. The last time I tried it – I got a one-way trip on one airline (got the TSA anal probe), got another one-way on another airline back again (got the probe again). The trip out had two layovers, including one 6 hour layover in DFW, took 18 hours to fly 900 miles. The trip back only had one layover, but a connection time of 40 minutes in a huge airport. The rental car was fine, but the hotel was so low-budget that they only took cash and traveler’s checks, no credit cards – and the parking lot outside of my room was full of cops, complete with lights and sirens, at 3 a.m. one night. I kept all my possessions in my rental car all week instead of leaving them in the room. And the whole thing ended up costing more than a ‘normal’ flight on my favorite airline (United at the time, I was living in DEN) and a stay at the local Marriott. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I *much* prefer our human TA. She knows our company policies and enforces ‘em. But she also knows how to call the reservations desk at a hotel I want and explain our company’s policy and sometimes get ‘em to knock off a few bucks so I can stay – show me the web-based service that does that. She knows how to sweet-talk HP into matching a WN price on the rare occasion that they are WAY out of line with company policy on pricing of airline tickets. She gives me freebie stuff from time to time, like free rental car vouchers. No web-based TA ever did that for me. She knows that I like 2 to 2 1/2 hour layovers, and that I don’t like flying on RJ’s. No way to tell our web-based server that. She would never even try to put me on WN unless there was nothing left…and so on. As for speed – what’s faster than a simple e-mail to my TA saying "Clone last week’s schedule, please." Done. If I’m going to a new gig, I can often do it in three lines of e-mail: ABQ-EWR-ABQ 6/22 (late) – 6/28 (early). Prefer HP. Marriott Courtyard or Marriott. Smoking King. Closest to customer X. Hertz with Neverlost. Midsize, Smoking. How hard is that? Of course, our TA knows me, and knows what I like and dislike. She’s great. I am a 21st Century Digital Boy – I *love* technology! But in the case of travel agents, let me talk to a human! And FYI – I have *never* had to call an airline to straighten anything out on behalf of a TA’s mistake. In six years of 100K + miles, I’ve had ONE thing go wrong that I could blame on the TA. No wait – actually two. One of them was when an itin I had booked was not ‘confirmed’ by the TA, so it expired and I didn’t actually have the flight. I called the TA’s 24-hour number and they fixed it pronto – even got the original price back. Granted, it could have been bad, but in this case it was not. And the other time – the TA had me picking up my rental car in my departure city, not my arrival city. No problem, Hertz fixed it right up in no time. I don’t dispute your conclusion that you find a web-based service better for your needs, but in my case, my experience was the exact opposite! Anybody else? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
[snip] > My wife and I hire a cleaning lady to come to our house once a week > and do a deep clean. Yes, we could do it ourselves and save the cost. > But in terms of time saved, it is worth the money. I get my clothes > laundered, and I always pay extra to have them fold my shirts instead > of leaving them on hangers. Is it worth it? For me, yes. I found it > was taking me 20 minutes a week to fold my shirts before packing them > for my next trip. 20 minutes > $10 USD. I’ll spend the money and be > glad for the 20 minutes of my life back.
This is sorta it. There are jobs just big enough that you could do yourself, but it is "worth it" to pay someone else. Small jobs, no. Gonna book a ticket from point A to B on some large volume, highly competed routes, that you’ve done before, yeah do it yourself. Assembling an open jaw itinerary at the last minute to a place you can barely find on a map? Might make good use of a GOOD TA. [snip] > I notice from time to time in this forum that this person or that will > describe how they have been cheated, crapped-on, or otherwise done in > by an airline, hotel, or some other travel-related service or vendor. > And of course that’s no fun. But I have also often noticed that these > are the same people who scrounge for the absolute lowest price on > EVERYTHING, regardless of imputed quality, and then complain when it > turns out to be crap. I mean, if you book travel on the Grace L. > Ferguson Airline & Storm Door Repair Company and stay at the Chalk > Outline Hotel in Hell’s Kitchen, NY and spend less than $20, yes, > you’re probably going to have a rotten time.
[snip] A bit harsh, but I know what you mean. At some point you have to ask yourself how an outfit can/would afford to offer such a "good deal". The possible answers should be a hint. I don’t defend outfits that "oversell" their products. But there is the concept of "you get what you pay for" which should be at least a guide. There is the concept of "value" which is different than either "cheap" or "top of the line". It is a balance between quality and cost. At some point what you lose isn’t worth the $5 you save. And equally, at some point, what you gain ain’t worth the $50 it will cost. I find it true in Wine, Women, and WN. There is an expression that the last 10% takes 90% of the effort. I find in cost, the first $5 extra gets you the most increase in quality. i.e. don’t get the cheapest place, get say the 2nd cheapest place. They’re charging more for something and you’ll probably want it.
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I suppose there is also the issue of TAs such as the one mentioned in this group that booked someone on two connecting BA flights and then ticketed them as separate tickets. Or was it the fault of the secretary who did the communicating? FFM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I travel extensively for work – over 130 segments last year. We used to use a > travel agent, then went to booking exclusively on-line. I don’t miss the TA at > all. In the cases where I did have a problem, 100% of the time it was the TA’s > fault, and in all of those cases I ended up on the phone to the airline > anyway. We have had no booking problems at all with booking on-line, and on > the rare occasion that we need something a little too complex for the Airline > websites a quick call to the airline has sorted it out. > There may be TA’s out there that will take the time to search out the best > deal, but we found we could always beat ours. And with Airline web sites as > sophisticated as they are now, changing flight times around is just not a > problem anymore. > Kevin Rhodes > Westbrook, Maine – Weary traveling computer system engineer >If you’re doing anything other than a basic return, a travel agent will be >able to advise which would be the most cost-effective route, the most >direct option (combining airlines or not), what options are or are not >possible, and will check all the combinations to find the price and >dates/times that suit you. Without you having to do anything. And you >get the benefit of anything else they can tell you. For $16 difference, >that’s a bargain.
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>These were supposedly consolidator travel agents–two of them >specifically mentioned Latin American expertise–and none of them >could beat the price I could easily find on the Internet. Are travel >agents worth anything for these kind of trips?
In my experience, for simple trips like yours it’s hard to beat the Internet. I find travel agents useful for the more complex stuff (like RTW trips) and destinations that are not well-served by US airlines: Africa, Russia, deep Asia, etc. Typically, published fares are outrageous, and to get the best deal one has to buy through an ethnic travel agent (i.e., someone who sends a lot of people to a particular destination and thus gets good bulk fares from the airlines). Occasionally, I see good deals even to places like Brazil and Europe from consolidators and STA Travel-type outfits, with the additional benefit that their fares are often more flexible than published fares (e.g., the itinerary on my last STA ticket could be changed for $25).
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OK, I think we need to make a distinction here. IIRC in Bill’s case he has an "in-house" TA. Technically she works for an agency but she is in his office and at his companies beck and call. This is a whole different ball game than a leisure traveller using a TA and getting a $20-30 surcharge for the TA booking the tickets. In my specific case, it could be said that I have an inhouse TA as well – our administrative assistant does all the booking for the three of us who travel. She is darned good at it too! But she is not technically a TA. Just performs the same functions. I can certainly see using a TA for something like a combination round-the-world cruiseairfare trip of a lifetime. But for normal business travel I don’t see value for money. I will admit that not having used a TA since they stopped working on commission, I don’t have recent knowledge of the level of service. It was pretty poor in our case – we booked 150 flights a year or so, which was not enough to mark us out for any special treatment, and the TA had no incentive to work her butt of to get us the best fare – that just cut her own paycheck! Maybe they try harder now, but we were typically saving 25%+ booking tickets ourselves. Kevin Rhodes Westbrook, Maine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, and you can’t just >issue a blanket statement like "Travel Agents are always great" or >"Travel Agents always suck". >For those who travel for a living (like myself), a travel agent is >invaluable. We don’t have time to search for the best price and book >it ourselves, and in some cases, the tickets are charged directly to >our employer anyway, so we could not book our own travel even if we >wanted to.
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> Interestingly enough, while they may not still be available, > there were tickets from DFW (3 hours drive), San Antonio (1:20) > and IAH(3 hours) for about $200. Never forget the Sunday > papers, a traditional travel shoppers venue.
I don’t think 6 hours worth of driving would be a good deal to save a little over $100. After all, not only is there travel time, but also car expenses. Plus, he did mention getting TA info out of the Sunday paper, so I would guess he looked at the fares advertised there.
Response:
I travel extensively for work – over 130 segments last year. We used to use a travel agent, then went to booking exclusively on-line. I don’t miss the TA at all. In the cases where I did have a problem, 100% of the time it was the TA’s fault, and in all of those cases I ended up on the phone to the airline anyway. We have had no booking problems at all with booking on-line, and on the rare occasion that we need something a little too complex for the Airline websites a quick call to the airline has sorted it out. There may be TA’s out there that will take the time to search out the best deal, but we found we could always beat ours. And with Airline web sites as sophisticated as they are now, changing flight times around is just not a problem anymore. Kevin Rhodes Westbrook, Maine – Weary traveling computer system engineer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If you’re doing anything other than a basic return, a travel agent will be >able to advise which would be the most cost-effective route, the most >direct option (combining airlines or not), what options are or are not >possible, and will check all the combinations to find the price and >dates/times that suit you. Without you having to do anything. And you >get the benefit of anything else they can tell you. For $16 difference, >that’s a bargain.
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I think that Bill has hit on part of the answer. Some folks travel so much that they cannot possibly invest the time necessary to arrange their trips. TAs are necessary for them. For others the time spent searching and considering alternatives is part of the fun of the trip. No Ta will invest that much work for a reasonable fee. Many TAs now refuse to consider independent air travel. If you don’t want a cruise or package they are not interested. Too much time. I suppose the answer depends on how much time you have, how much experience, and how much money. Bill is on the road constantly and the customers are willing to pay the fees. I have the time and the costs come from my cash. Different folks and different solutions. The answer is that TAs are no longer necessary. If you can afford the cost and find a competent one they make it simpler. Your choice. FFM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, and you can’t just > issue a blanket statement like "Travel Agents are always great" or > "Travel Agents always suck". > For those who travel for a living (like myself), a travel agent is > invaluable. We don’t have time to search for the best price and book > it ourselves, and in some cases, the tickets are charged directly to > our employer anyway, so we could not book our own travel even if we > wanted to. > Do Travel Agents save money? For me, you bet! In several ways: > * Although there are sometimes web-based prices that are cheaper, I’ve > found my TA is often quite good at finding little deals I didn’t know > about, or creatively putting together bits and pieces of different > tickets to get me where I want to go and when. > * My TA knows about all of my preferences, so I don’t have to paw > through loads of web responses to a web-based search for the one or > two flights that fit my needs. I don’t know of a web-based search > engine that will let me specify that I *always* want a 2 hour layover, > and I don’t like flying on RJ’s, or that I only want Hertz rental cars > with Neverlost, or that I prefer Marriott-family hotels, *and* I’m a > smoker, AND I have dozens if not hundreds of airline, hotel, and > rental car loyalty program numbers that all need to be plugged in, and > so on, and so on. She knows it, she juggles it, I don’t have to worry > about it. > * My TA sometimes shoots me little deals. I mention that my wife and > I are taking a few day’s vacation, and she hooks me up with some free > rental car coupons she happens to have laying around (assuming that > she *does* have them laying around). Nothing like your TA putting a > couple hundred dollars back in your wallet to make you appreciate her > even more. > * I can shoot an e-mail to my TA and say "Clone my last trip, but this > time give me a hotel closer to the employer" and that’s literally all > I have to do. She presents me with options (usually two or three, > tops) and I tell her which one to book. End of problem for me, she is > the one working her tail off. > * Ever try to get out of a ‘non-refundable’ ticket? My TA has saved > my bacon at least a couple of times when a customer cancelled on me > and I was already comitted to an expensive ticket. Experienced TA’s > have ‘pals’ inside the industry who can sometimes do favors. Not > always, but sometimes. > * My TA has on occasion called up an airline that I wanted to fly on > and talked them into matching a price on a cheaper airline going the > same place that I didn’t want to fly on. I suppose I could do it, but > who has the time? And I’m not the world’s greatest negotiator. > * My TA has a database of reports that customers have made about > certain hotels – she has warned me off of hotels that seemed great on > paper (close to the customer, good price, name-brand hotel chain), but > have lousy management, so the place is not clean, or in a high-crime > area (yes, really) or has junkies prowling the parking lots at night, > etc (also happened to me once). Tell me which web-based service can > tell you that a certain hotel is right next to a Greyhound Bus > terminal that is open until 3 a.m. or that a nearby factory belches > noxious fumes at 5 in the morning and your hotel is downwind. I’ve > been saved from all those and more by my TA, who has lots of data and > often knows the score. > My wife and I hire a cleaning lady to come to our house once a week > and do a deep clean. Yes, we could do it ourselves and save the cost. > But in terms of time saved, it is worth the money. I get my clothes > laundered, and I always pay extra to have them fold my shirts instead > of leaving them on hangers. Is it worth it? For me, yes. I found it > was taking me 20 minutes a week to fold my shirts before packing them > for my next trip. 20 minutes > $10 USD. I’ll spend the money and be > glad for the 20 minutes of my life back. > I guess what I’m trying to say is that in general, if your goal is to > find the absolute best price without regard for the time you spend > looking for it, you’ll probably be disappointed in the services of a > TA. Also, my TA has told me that there are some web-only fares that > are NOT AVAILABLE to TA’s – it is a case of the airline trying to do > independent Travel Agents in. > However, if your time is worth more to you than the couple of bucks > you might save scrounging on your own, then a TA is often well worth > it. A good TA is worth his or her weight in gold, and I treasure the > one I’ve got now – although actually, ALL the TA’s that my company has > used have been terrific over the years. Just my experience, your > milage may vary. > One thing that I have to toss in – only because your post got me > thinking about it, not aimed at you, so don’t take it personally! > I notice from time to time in this forum that this person or that will > describe how they have been cheated, crapped-on, or otherwise done in > by an airline, hotel, or some other travel-related service or vendor. > And of course that’s no fun. But I have also often noticed that these > are the same people who scrounge for the absolute lowest price on > EVERYTHING, regardless of imputed quality, and then complain when it > turns out to be crap. I mean, if you book travel on the Grace L. > Ferguson Airline & Storm Door Repair Company and stay at the Chalk > Outline Hotel in Hell’s Kitchen, NY and spend less than $20, yes, > you’re probably going to have a rotten time. I know that sometimes > budgets are tight, but dang – travel is voluntary. Spend cheap, get > cheap. Name of the game. > Anyway, back on topic – for me, TA’s are invaluable, worth much more > than the few bucks I (or my company or customer, more likely) might > have saved. But if you’re a one-time flier who is both able and > willing to search high and low for the best bucket-shop consolidator > ticket possible and pay in S&H green stamps or trade for Beanie Babies > or something, then no, a TA will probably not be of much value to you. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > Last week I was looking at plane tickets from Austin, Texas > to Mexico City for the first week of August. I had been > checking prices on the Internet (Orbitz & Expedia) and I > thought I would be smart and call some of the travel agents > listed in the Sunday travel section of the paper to see if > they could beat the $330 price I found on several Internet > sites. > I asked four travel agents for a quote for the same dates > and to pick the cheapest airline. Here were my results: > (1) $346 (2) $516 (3) $366 (4) $385 > These were supposedly consolidator travel agents–two of > them specifically mentioned Latin American expertise–and > none of them could beat the price I could easily find on the > Internet. Are travel agents worth anything for these kind of > trips? > Continental ended up dropping their price to $297 and I > bought it on their web page with no commission and 1,000 > bonus miles. > Cheers, > Ben
Interestingly enough, while they may not still be available, there were tickets from DFW (3 hours drive), San Antonio (1:20) and IAH(3 hours) for about $200. Never forget the Sunday papers, a traditional travel shoppers venue. Alternate departure points area necessity when you live in a city with a single line’s commuter service. At hotels near DFW and IAH, I arranged quid pro quos with a couple of hotels in exchange for an extended period of shuttle service and free parking. As locations for meetings, they were as good as the alternatives and anxious to book the business in return for a minor occasional freebie. TMO
Response:
I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, and you can’t just issue a blanket statement like "Travel Agents are always great" or "Travel Agents always suck". For those who travel for a living (like myself), a travel agent is invaluable. We don’t have time to search for the best price and book it ourselves, and in some cases, the tickets are charged directly to our employer anyway, so we could not book our own travel even if we wanted to. Do Travel Agents save money? For me, you bet! In several ways: * Although there are sometimes web-based prices that are cheaper, I’ve found my TA is often quite good at finding little deals I didn’t know about, or creatively putting together bits and pieces of different tickets to get me where I want to go and when. * My TA knows about all of my preferences, so I don’t have to paw through loads of web responses to a web-based search for the one or two flights that fit my needs. I don’t know of a web-based search engine that will let me specify that I *always* want a 2 hour layover, and I don’t like flying on RJ’s, or that I only want Hertz rental cars with Neverlost, or that I prefer Marriott-family hotels, *and* I’m a smoker, AND I have dozens if not hundreds of airline, hotel, and rental car loyalty program numbers that all need to be plugged in, and so on, and so on. She knows it, she juggles it, I don’t have to worry about it. * My TA sometimes shoots me little deals. I mention that my wife and I are taking a few day’s vacation, and she hooks me up with some free rental car coupons she happens to have laying around (assuming that she *does* have them laying around). Nothing like your TA putting a couple hundred dollars back in your wallet to make you appreciate her even more. * I can shoot an e-mail to my TA and say "Clone my last trip, but this time give me a hotel closer to the employer" and that’s literally all I have to do. She presents me with options (usually two or three, tops) and I tell her which one to book. End of problem for me, she is the one working her tail off. * Ever try to get out of a ‘non-refundable’ ticket? My TA has saved my bacon at least a couple of times when a customer cancelled on me and I was already comitted to an expensive ticket. Experienced TA’s have ‘pals’ inside the industry who can sometimes do favors. Not always, but sometimes. * My TA has on occasion called up an airline that I wanted to fly on and talked them into matching a price on a cheaper airline going the same place that I didn’t want to fly on. I suppose I could do it, but who has the time? And I’m not the world’s greatest negotiator. * My TA has a database of reports that customers have made about certain hotels – she has warned me off of hotels that seemed great on paper (close to the customer, good price, name-brand hotel chain), but have lousy management, so the place is not clean, or in a high-crime area (yes, really) or has junkies prowling the parking lots at night, etc (also happened to me once). Tell me which web-based service can tell you that a certain hotel is right next to a Greyhound Bus terminal that is open until 3 a.m. or that a nearby factory belches noxious fumes at 5 in the morning and your hotel is downwind. I’ve been saved from all those and more by my TA, who has lots of data and often knows the score. My wife and I hire a cleaning lady to come to our house once a week and do a deep clean. Yes, we could do it ourselves and save the cost. But in terms of time saved, it is worth the money. I get my clothes laundered, and I always pay extra to have them fold my shirts instead of leaving them on hangers. Is it worth it? For me, yes. I found it was taking me 20 minutes a week to fold my shirts before packing them for my next trip. 20 minutes > $10 USD. I’ll spend the money and be glad for the 20 minutes of my life back. I guess what I’m trying to say is that in general, if your goal is to find the absolute best price without regard for the time you spend looking for it, you’ll probably be disappointed in the services of a TA. Also, my TA has told me that there are some web-only fares that are NOT AVAILABLE to TA’s – it is a case of the airline trying to do independent Travel Agents in. However, if your time is worth more to you than the couple of bucks you might save scrounging on your own, then a TA is often well worth it. A good TA is worth his or her weight in gold, and I treasure the one I’ve got now – although actually, ALL the TA’s that my company has used have been terrific over the years. Just my experience, your milage may vary. One thing that I have to toss in – only because your post got me thinking about it, not aimed at you, so don’t take it personally! I notice from time to time in this forum that this person or that will describe how they have been cheated, crapped-on, or otherwise done in by an airline, hotel, or some other travel-related service or vendor. And of course that’s no fun. But I have also often noticed that these are the same people who scrounge for the absolute lowest price on EVERYTHING, regardless of imputed quality, and then complain when it turns out to be crap. I mean, if you book travel on the Grace L. Ferguson Airline & Storm Door Repair Company and stay at the Chalk Outline Hotel in Hell’s Kitchen, NY and spend less than $20, yes, you’re probably going to have a rotten time. I know that sometimes budgets are tight, but dang – travel is voluntary. Spend cheap, get cheap. Name of the game. Anyway, back on topic – for me, TA’s are invaluable, worth much more than the few bucks I (or my company or customer, more likely) might have saved. But if you’re a one-time flier who is both able and willing to search high and low for the best bucket-shop consolidator ticket possible and pay in S&H green stamps or trade for Beanie Babies or something, then no, a TA will probably not be of much value to you. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
> There’s a curve defined by your willingness to expend effort and the > complexity of the task. It’d be the same thing dealing with a doctor. If you > cut your hand, you may choose to just deal with it at home if you have the > supplies and expertise. Or you may choose to have the peace of mind or > simplicity of having someone else take care of it. That’s like a simple > point-to-point, basically domestic (Mexico etc.), round-trip.
Pretty good analysis, though a flawed analogy, especially the one below: > On the other hand, if you need open-heart surgery (i.e., a complex > round-the-world) it’s pretty unlikely you’re doing it in the kitchen.
Even if I could do as good as job as an open-heart surgeon, I am not allowed to practice, by law, without certification, and I don’t get perks like bonus Frequent Surgery Miles for doing it myself rather than paying for the fees the Surgeon need to charge for making a living. The travel agent, IMHO, is a dying breed like the horse and buggy, in today’s world of increasing computer literacy and ever- improving FREE service (as well as the service paying YOU to use it) of internet web sites. But I agree that there will always be a few that perfer the use of travel agents (for whatever reason), as there are the Amish and other folks who prefer the use of horse and buggy over the use of automobiles and airplanes. — Bob. P.S. I know more about certain airlines some complicated travels to certain locations betterthan most travel agents. :-)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello, > Last week I was looking at plane tickets from Austin, Texas to Mexico > City for the first week of August. I had been checking prices on the > Internet (Orbitz & Expedia) and I thought I would be smart and call > some of the travel agents listed in the Sunday travel section of the > paper to see if they could beat the $330 price I found on several > Internet sites. > I asked four travel agents for a quote for the same dates and to pick > the cheapest airline. Here were my results: > (1) $346 (2) $516 (3) $366 (4) $385 > These were supposedly consolidator travel agents–two of them > specifically mentioned Latin American expertise–and none of them > could beat the price I could easily find on the Internet. Are travel > agents worth anything for these kind of trips? > Continental ended up dropping their price to $297 and I bought it on > their web page with no commission and 1,000 bonus miles.
Let’s say you decide to cancel your trip the next day. Many agents could cancel it and get your money back Try that with one you bought directly from CO. TAs are also useful for things other than getting fare quotes. (I had one wax my car once)
Response:
Hello, Last week I was looking at plane tickets from Austin, Texas to Mexico City for the first week of August. I had been checking prices on the Internet (Orbitz & Expedia) and I thought I would be smart and call some of the travel agents listed in the Sunday travel section of the paper to see if they could beat the $330 price I found on several Internet sites. I asked four travel agents for a quote for the same dates and to pick the cheapest airline. Here were my results: (1) $346 (2) $516 (3) $366 (4) $385 These were supposedly consolidator travel agents–two of them specifically mentioned Latin American expertise–and none of them could beat the price I could easily find on the Internet. Are travel agents worth anything for these kind of trips? Continental ended up dropping their price to $297 and I bought it on their web page with no commission and 1,000 bonus miles. Cheers, Ben
Response:
> These were supposedly consolidator travel agents–two of them > specifically mentioned Latin American expertise–and none of them > could beat the price I could easily find on the Internet. Are travel > agents worth anything for these kind of trips?
There’s a curve defined by your willingness to expend effort and the complexity of the task. It’d be the same thing dealing with a doctor. If you cut your hand, you may choose to just deal with it at home if you have the supplies and expertise. Or you may choose to have the peace of mind or simplicity of having someone else take care of it. That’s like a simple point-to-point, basically domestic (Mexico etc.), round-trip. On the other hand, if you need open-heart surgery (i.e., a complex round-the-world) it’s pretty unlikely you’re doing it in the kitchen. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Response:
— Susan Hoffmann 