Air Travel » Cheap Air Travel » All Major Airlines need a good clean up
Question:
> But JNB being a hub or not, I was quite surprised at the paucity of > flights to CPT from any place other than JNB — it is after all a > major city in the country and region, even if it’s not the most major, > right? And, for tourism, I imagine it fares at least as well as > Jo’burg, right? Anyway, we had a marvelous time in Zanzibar and > Zimbabwe — next time I hope to make it to Capetown. 
Indeed, it does not exactly feel that busy. Having moved down here from Bonn, my old home airport CGN did not feel much different from CPT (more 747s down here, though). CPT is by far the fastest growing airport around – but this is mostly due to international flights from Europa/North and South America. The number of European airlines operating to CPT (usually via JNB) has increased dramatically – SA, LH, BA, AF, KL, Swissair, Austrian, LTU, Egyptair, TY all operate down to CPT now. And there is quite some competition now on the JNB-CPT run with SA, BA, BV and CV in the running. Otherwise CPT is rather quiet – flights to places such as Durban, Port Elizabeth, George, Kimberley, Blomfontein, Upington and Springbok. Regionally it is Windhoek, Harare, Maseru and, once a week, Mauritius. There is not so much regional tourism so most tourists tend to come from Europe. The 747s operate at full capacity from Europe to JNB and at about 1/4 capacity for the remaining leg. Very few airlines (BA, SA, LT) have non-stop flights (London and Munich only). Wolf-Christian
Response:
<snip> >CPT is by far the fastest growing airport around – but this is mostly >due to international flights from Europa/North and South America. The >number of European airlines operating to CPT (usually via JNB) has >increased dramatically – SA, LH, BA, AF, KL, Swissair, Austrian, LTU, >Egyptair, TY all operate down to CPT now. And there is quite some >competition now on the JNB-CPT run with SA, BA, BV and CV in the >running.
Yes, we were originally booked to fly home on the nonstop BA CPT-London (forget whether it was LHR or LGW) but, when we decided to skip Capetown, we changed it to HRE-LGW. I hadn’t realized how rare it was to fly out of CPT and not land in JNB! 
(I guess I’ve gotten spoiled — I live in Philadelphia, which is really pretty pathetic as world cities go, yet I can fly nonstop to most cities in the US and a bunch in Canada and Europe. And I complain that I still have to go to NY or elsewhere to fly to Japan or Israel. ) <snip> >There is not so much regional tourism so most tourists tend to come from >Europe. The 747s operate at full capacity from Europe to JNB and at >about 1/4 capacity for the remaining leg. Very few airlines (BA, SA, LT) >have non-stop flights (London and Munich only).
The problem is — what are the tourists that get there from Europe (or other continents) supposed to do once in Africa? I guess we’re supposed to sign up with a safari company and be carted around the continent in buses and jeeps but more flights would be nice for us non-safari types. I really hope to get back to that part of the world — I absolutely fell in love with Zimbabwe and must go back and I would also like to see the neighboring countries. Sigh.
Response:
>> But JNB being a hub or not, I was quite surprised at the paucity of > flights to CPT from any place other than JNB — it is after all a > major city in the country and region, even if it’s not the most major, > right? And, for tourism, I imagine it fares at least as well as > Jo’burg, right? Anyway, we had a marvelous time in Zanzibar and > Zimbabwe — next time I hope to make it to Capetown.
Funny! An American grumbling about the hub-and-spoke system… >Indeed, it does not exactly feel that busy. Having moved down here from >Bonn, my old home airport CGN did not feel much different from CPT (more >747s down here, though). >CPT is by far the fastest growing airport around – but this is mostly >due to international flights from Europa/North and South America. The >number of European airlines operating to CPT (usually via JNB) has >increased dramatically – SA, LH, BA, AF, KL, Swissair, Austrian, LTU, >Egyptair, TY all operate down to CPT now. And there is quite some >competition now on the JNB-CPT run with SA, BA, BV and CV in the >running.
For Europeans, Capetown is an "emerging" destination: all the comforts of civilization, with summer in December and a couple of oceans to play with. The fact that its one of the most beautiful places on the planet doesn’t hurt, either. Capetown’s "emergence" has nothing to do with development; rather, it is now politically acceptable to slope off there, and the risk of crime has stabilized. >Otherwise CPT is rather quiet – flights to places such as Durban, Port >Elizabeth, George, Kimberley, Blomfontein, Upington and Springbok. >Regionally it is Windhoek, Harare, Maseru and, once a week, Mauritius. >There is not so much regional tourism so most tourists tend to come from >Europe. The 747s operate at full capacity from Europe to JNB and at >about 1/4 capacity for the remaining leg. Very few airlines (BA, SA, LT) >have non-stop flights (London and Munich only).
Try getting a flight LON-CPT during November or December… >Wolf-Christian
Malc.
Response:
<snip> >in fact there are NO flights between Cape Town and Vic Falls and only >two direct flights between Cape Town and Harare (via Jo’burg on Air >Zimbabwe). However you must keep the geography of the region in mind – >Cape Town is no major international business destination and far away >from the rest of the region. Furthermore SAA operates on a hub-and-spoke >system based at Jo’burg.
Gee, last year there was one flight a week, Saturday AM, from Vic Falls to Capetown, Air Zimbabwe 311. Guess it’s no longer running. Yeah, I noticed the hub-ness of JNB. Trouble is, we had a very short vacation and I didn’t want to spend the better part of a day just getting from one place to another, which is what would have happened if we had to change in JNB. (And Jo’burg itself was not one of our desired destinations.) But JNB being a hub or not, I was quite surprised at the paucity of flights to CPT from any place other than JNB — it is after all a major city in the country and region, even if it’s not the most major, right? And, for tourism, I imagine it fares at least as well as Jo’burg, right? Anyway, we had a marvelous time in Zanzibar and Zimbabwe — next time I hope to make it to Capetown.
Response:
<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The sorry thing is, that this is very much a US problem. Not all major >airlines need a good clean-up but all US airlines need one. Having lived >in the USA, Central America, Europe and currently Southern Africa, I >found that air travel indeed is in most parts of the world still rather >enjoyable. >In South Africa, a substantial snack is served on ALL domestic flights >(from Commuter prop to widebody jet). During meal times this is upgraded >to a full hot meal, I had decent game steaks and pasta during recent 90 >minutes flights from George (GRJ) to Johannesburg (JNB). Of course with >a glass of fine South African wine or a Gin and Tonic. >Actually service on the national carrier (SAA) has improved since there >is intense competition domestically – partly fought over who has the >best in-flight service. And yes, I’m talking coach class here. >Same goes for other parts of the world – in Europe there are virtually >no transborder services without at least a snack – and few domestic >flights of over one hour. My worst mistake ever was to chose AA over >Taca on a Central American (MIA-GUA) flight. Remember – in terms of >inflight service.
Well, you’ve got more to eat on the flights — but you’ve got many fewer flights! Last year when planning a trip to southern/eastern Africa, I was astonished at how infrequent flights were, even between major places. In fact, the flights between Capetown and Bulawayo and between Capetown and Harare were so few and far between that we canceled our reservations in Capetown and skipped South Africa entirely. (IIRC, the most flights were between Capetown and Vic Falls but still precious few and, besides, we didn’t want to go to Vic Falls.) I can’t imagine not having daily flights between analogous cities in most of the rest of the world. I’m not criticizing SA for this — it seemed to be a general pattern that there were at most a few flights/week between any two points in the whole region, except for Capetown and Jo’burg.
Response:
> Well, you’ve got more to eat on the flights — but you’ve got many > fewer flights! Last year when planning a trip to southern/eastern > Africa, I was astonished at how infrequent flights were, even between > major places. In fact, the flights between Capetown and Bulawayo and > between Capetown and Harare were so few and far between that we > canceled our reservations in Capetown and skipped South Africa entirely. > (IIRC, the most flights were between Capetown and Vic Falls but still > precious few and, besides, we didn’t want to go to Vic Falls.) I can’t > imagine not having daily flights between analogous cities in most of > the rest of the world. > I’m not criticizing SA for this — it seemed to be a general pattern > that there were at most a few flights/week between any two points > in the whole region, except for Capetown and Jo’burg.
Dear Ellen, in fact there are NO flights between Cape Town and Vic Falls and only two direct flights between Cape Town and Harare (via Jo’burg on Air Zimbabwe). However you must keep the geography of the region in mind – Cape Town is no major international business destination and far away from the rest of the region. Furthermore SAA operates on a hub-and-spoke system based at Jo’burg. There are plenty of connections available in the region via Jo’burg: – at least two, often four daily flights between JNB and HRE (on SAA, UM, Z7 and BA) – two flights daily to MSU (SAA + Air Lesotho), twice a week from CPT – at least two flights daily to Swaziland (Metavia, SAA, Royal Swazi) – at least two, often five flights daily to VFA (SA, BA, UM, Z7, BV) – at least three flights daily JNB-WDH plus daily flights CPT-WDH (SA, SW, BA) – at least daily flights to Maputo (SA, LAM, Metavia) – twice daily to Garborone (SA + Air Botswana) There are more flights to Lusaka, Luanda, Malawi, East- and Westafrica. Jo’burg is by far the most important hub in this part of the world (and slowly replacing Nairobi in this regard). For a very poor region, we are wittnessing an enormeous growth. But you are right – direct flights from SA to Bulawayo are quite limited, it is, however, easy to catch a flight to HRE and connect to Bulawayo on a UM or Z7 feeder flight. Happy Skies, Wolf-Christian
Response:
>All this bitching about NWA, show me an Airline >that couldn`t use improvements. Majority of
Most of the Asian airlines are so much better than US airlines that it’s getting ridiculous. Ed R.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > –I would also agree with that. I never cease to be amazed that I can travel > > around the World, in safety, and at what I consider to be very reasonable > fares > > considering the standards of comfort, service, and punctuality that I nearly > > always get. > [snip] > So you can’t understand why everyone doesn’t enjoy what YOU > consider to be reasonable? Standards are different for everyone. > –Standards may be different for everyone, and some people may have > unreasonable expectations, but air travel has never been so affordable to so > many people. I nearly always travel Economy, I don’t go for the cheapest > airline, but am prepared to pay slightly more for an airline that will give me > the standards I consider acceptable, and I think I usually get a bargain. If > people have higher standards then they will have to be prepared to pay to have > their standards met. It is as simple as that.
[snip] Oh, but if it only were. Compare the experience a decades ago to that now. You can’t buy that product any more. You can buy a siginificantly more expensive product. Or you can buy a vastly less expensive product. But the one that was formerly available is no longer. What you really meant to say was that the choice is between having the standards vastly exceeded, or be vastly disappointed. I am suffering from the tyranny of the majority, otherwise know as free market economics, or appealing to the lowest common denominator. Watch prime time network television sometime, you might get a feeling for what I am talking about. Better yet, watch network news (or what passes for it).
Response:
> > Some can remember a time when the trip was part of the enjoyment. > Does it not make sense that one might lament the loss of this aspect > of travel? > Heck, I remember the time on Northwest when they would serve a full hot > breakfast on an MKE-MSP flight … now you’d be lucky to get a half-way > decent snack on a flight 4 times as long. The good service on the trip was > part of the enjoyment, now it’s history..
The sorry thing is, that this is very much a US problem. Not all major airlines need a good clean-up but all US airlines need one. Having lived in the USA, Central America, Europe and currently Southern Africa, I found that air travel indeed is in most parts of the world still rather enjoyable. In South Africa, a substantial snack is served on ALL domestic flights (from Commuter prop to widebody jet). During meal times this is upgraded to a full hot meal, I had decent game steaks and pasta during recent 90 minutes flights from George (GRJ) to Johannesburg (JNB). Of course with a glass of fine South African wine or a Gin and Tonic. Actually service on the national carrier (SAA) has improved since there is intense competition domestically – partly fought over who has the best in-flight service. And yes, I’m talking coach class here. Same goes for other parts of the world – in Europe there are virtually no transborder services without at least a snack – and few domestic flights of over one hour. My worst mistake ever was to chose AA over Taca on a Central American (MIA-GUA) flight. Remember – in terms of inflight service. Happy Skies! Wolf-Christian
Response:
> > > > Majority of > > > people spend 3 to 4 hrs. on a flight going from point A to point > B > > but > > > make it sound like they have to live on board for all eternity. > Some can remember a time when the trip was part of the enjoyment. > Does it not make sense that one might lament the loss of this aspect > of travel?
Heck, I remember the time on Northwest when they would serve a full hot breakfast on an MKE-MSP flight … now you’d be lucky to get a half-way decent snack on a flight 4 times as long. The good service on the trip was part of the enjoyment, now it’s history.. Regards, Steve
Response:
> [snip] > –I would also agree with that. I never cease to be amazed that I can travel > around the World, in safety, and at what I consider to be very reasonable > fares > considering the standards of comfort, service, and punctuality that I nearly > always get. > [snip] > So you can’t understand why everyone doesn’t enjoy what YOU > consider to be reasonable? Standards are different for everyone.
–Standards may be different for everyone, and some people may have unreasonable expectations, but air travel has never been so affordable to so many people. I nearly always travel Economy, I don’t go for the cheapest airline, but am prepared to pay slightly more for an airline that will give me the standards I consider acceptable, and I think I usually get a bargain. If people have higher standards then they will have to be prepared to pay to have their standards met. It is as simple as that. –==++AJC++==–
Response:
> > > All this bitching about NWA, show me an Airline > > that couldn`t use improvements.
When does commenting on exactly WHAT those improvements might be become bitching? When does contrasting and comparing what improvements each airline might make become bitching? > > Majority of > > people spend 3 to 4 hrs. on a flight going from point A to point B > but > > make it sound like they have to live on board for all eternity.
Some can remember a time when the trip was part of the enjoyment. Does it not make sense that one might lament the loss of this aspect of travel? > > Furthermore, majority of the people travel coach, including myself. > > Look at it as a Flying Taxi
There was a time when this ploy wasn’t necessary. You could look at it as a plane. > > to get you to your destination. > > You want luxury and pampering, pay the money > > and go 1st Class.
And if you just want something better than stowage? > > Dealing with people is a bitch > > in itself, I know from experience > > I have flown NWA for years and yes , did have > > a couple bad experiences but for heaven`s sake > > it was not the end of the World. > > You`re entitled to a bad day , so are the people > > who try to make your flight a pleasant one, > > regardless what Airline it is.
A professinal is one that does their best job, even when they don’t feel like it. [snip] > Very well said, I appreciate the fact that we can get from point A to point B > in one > piece at high speeds instead of having to go greyhound, and I try to make the > best of > the flight. I usually enjoy flying, and sometimes fly for fun.
There was a time you didn’t have to compare airline travel to greyhound buses to enjoy and appreciate it. As we have watched air travel approach something akin to subway travel, it has gotten more and more difficult to enjoy the experience. [snip] > –I would also agree with that. I never cease to be amazed that I can travel > around the World, in safety, and at what I consider to be very reasonable fares > considering the standards of comfort, service, and punctuality that I nearly > always get.
[snip] So you can’t understand why everyone doesn’t enjoy what YOU consider to be reasonable? Standards are different for everyone.
Response:
All this bitching about NWA, show me an Airline that couldn`t use improvements. Majority of people spend 3 to 4 hrs. on a flight going from point A to point B but make it sound like they have to live on board for all eternity. Furthermore, majority of the people travel coach, including myself. Look at it as a Flying Taxi to get you to your destination. You want luxury and pampering, pay the money and go 1st Class. Dealing with people is a bitch in itself, I know from experience I have flown NWA for years and yes , did have a couple bad experiences but for heaven`s sake it was not the end of the World. You`re entitled to a bad day , so are the people who try to make your flight a pleasant one, regardless what Airline it is. No offense to anyone, only my personal observation. " Have a pleasant trip " <pappajohn>
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All this bitching about NWA, show me an Airline > that couldn`t use improvements. Majority of > people spend 3 to 4 hrs. on a flight going from point A to point B > but > make it sound like they have to live on board for all eternity. > Furthermore, majority of the people travel coach, including myself. > Look at it as a Flying Taxi to get you to your destination. > You want luxury and pampering, pay the money > and go 1st Class. Dealing with people is a bitch > in itself, I know from experience > I have flown NWA for years and yes , did have > a couple bad experiences but for heaven`s sake > it was not the end of the World. > You`re entitled to a bad day , so are the people > who try to make your flight a pleasant one, > regardless what Airline it is. > No offense to anyone, only my personal observation. " Have a > pleasant > trip " > <pappajohn> > Very well said, I appreciate the fact that we can get from point A to point B > in one > piece at high speeds instead of having to go greyhound, and I try to make the > best of > the flight. I usually enjoy flying, and sometimes fly for fun. > Regards, Erik R.
–I would also agree with that. I never cease to be amazed that I can travel around the World, in safety, and at what I consider to be very reasonable fares considering the standards of comfort, service, and punctuality that I nearly always get. –==++AJC++==–
no comment untill now