Why We Won't Travel

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Question:

"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of commercials to get them back. Find out why at http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm What do you think? By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

> Americans aren’t just wary of travel; they’re sick of it.

Please don’t lump my family into your generalization. We feel exactly the opposite, and would hate for you to give the wrong impression. Thank you.

Response:

Go sit on your ass. Stay at home. We will travel as much as we used to. These terrorist won’t change MY lifestyle. God bless George Bush and America – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think? >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

Amen to that. And yes, I’m tired, because I work full time, go to school, have a boyfriend and house to take care of, family and friends. I love to travel and I deserve it. Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Go sit on your ass. Stay at home. We will travel as much as we used to. > These terrorist won’t change MY lifestyle. > God bless George Bush and America >"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think? >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

> "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think?

I am not american. But my experience is that the more I travel, the more I want to travel more. Addicting it is. And I think few people are tired of traveling for hollidays. Unfortunately, we only have 5 weeks holliday a year (+ 12 bank hollidays), and I wish we had a lot more. On the other side, I think it is quite strange when Bush said on tv a while ago that you should live your lifes as normal, go out to restaurants, travel and so on. While the vise president were at some secret unknown place, hiding from new threats… We have not changed our habits. We have been traveling several times since november. And in december we are going to New York. Leif Arild Norway

Response:

>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back.

Whatever you say Mr. Spam. Now back to our regularly scheduled offtopic distractions. — Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com> Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html> French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11>

Response:

It’s pretty clear to me that the first handful of people who responded to this post didn’t bother to read the story at the link to see what this was really about. I’ll wait to see if anybody actually responds to or agrees with the points in the story, but in the meantime, I sure do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think? > By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories > sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

I read the article accessed by the hyperlink and I must say I agree with many of the points raised. Will I stop travelling — no. But, the airlines, rental car agengies and hotel chains must realize that anyone who is a frequent traveler has noticed the higher cost and lessened services received. Case in point, I booked tickets to Daytona Beach on US Air in May of this year — long before the terrorist attacks. I checked periodically to see if I had gotten the best price. Before the terrorist attacks the ticket prices remained just above what I paid (approx. 200 per ticket). After September 11th the cheapest fare available from US Air for the same route within a similar time frame was 385 per person — and on top of it my original purchase was for a direct flight; when Metrojet was decommissioned our direct flights turned into connections. Where are the incentives to get America flying again? This is just one instance where prices have risen, not lessened. Another case in point, car rentals. Again, using our Daytona Beach trip as an example, we were able to rent a car for approx. $30.00 per day, reserved in June of this year. Again, checking to see if I got a good deal, after September 11th the best rate available was $46.00 per day. I checked on rates for February of 2002 in anticipation of a return trip and the rates had risen — best I could find was $51 per day. Again, where are the supposed price cuts to get us travelling again? Now, tonight on the news they announced that US air is going to stop offering pillows and blankets on domestic flights to save money. What’s next, no toilet paper in the john? Again, will I stop travelling — no. But, I can definitely see where people who are on the fence because of price and quality of service will. For my part, I am scouring every discount travel site and travel promotion notification e-mail I receive very carefully — I refuse to pay full price for less than full service, now more than ever. Has the travel industry cut prices to get us moving again? Other than within the motel industry, in my experience NO! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think? >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I read the article accessed by the hyperlink and I must say I agree > with many of the points raised. Will I stop travelling — no. But, > the airlines, rental car agengies and hotel chains must realize that > anyone who is a frequent traveler has noticed the higher cost and > lessened services received. Case in point, I booked tickets to > Daytona Beach on US Air in May of this year — long before the > terrorist attacks. I checked periodically to see if I had gotten the > best price. Before the terrorist attacks the ticket prices remained > just above what I paid (approx. 200 per ticket). After September 11th > the cheapest fare available from US Air for the same route within a > similar time frame was 385 per person — and on top of it my original > purchase was for a direct flight; when Metrojet was decommissioned our > direct flights turned into connections. Where are the incentives to > get America flying again? This is just one instance where prices have > risen, not lessened. > Another case in point, car rentals. Again, using our Daytona Beach > trip as an example, we were able to rent a car for approx. $30.00 per > day, reserved in June of this year. Again, checking to see if I got a > good deal, after September 11th the best rate available was $46.00 per > day. I checked on rates for February of 2002 in anticipation of a > return trip and the rates had risen — best I could find was $51 per > day. Again, where are the supposed price cuts to get us travelling > again? > Now, tonight on the news they announced that US air is going to stop > offering pillows and blankets on domestic flights to save money. > What’s next, no toilet paper in the john? > Again, will I stop travelling — no. But, I can definitely see where > people who are on the fence because of price and quality of service > will. For my part, I am scouring every discount travel site and > travel promotion notification e-mail I receive very carefully — I > refuse to pay full price for less than full service, now more than > ever. > Has the travel industry cut prices to get us moving again? Other than > within the motel industry, in my experience NO! >"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think? >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Prices for rental cars, flights, and hotels are more expensive in Florida between Oct-April because it is high season down here. Between April-Sept it is low season and sometimes as much as 30-50% cheaper.

Response:

Granted, but that still doesn’t explain the dramatically increased air fare and car rental fees for the trip — again, I booked long before 9/11, and after rates for these services were much higher for the same time period — November of this year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read the article accessed by the hyperlink and I must say I agree > with many of the points raised. Will I stop travelling — no. But, > the airlines, rental car agengies and hotel chains must realize that > anyone who is a frequent traveler has noticed the higher cost and > lessened services received. Case in point, I booked tickets to > Daytona Beach on US Air in May of this year — long before the > terrorist attacks. I checked periodically to see if I had gotten the > best price. Before the terrorist attacks the ticket prices remained > just above what I paid (approx. 200 per ticket). After September 11th > the cheapest fare available from US Air for the same route within a > similar time frame was 385 per person — and on top of it my original > purchase was for a direct flight; when Metrojet was decommissioned our > direct flights turned into connections. Where are the incentives to > get America flying again? This is just one instance where prices have > risen, not lessened. > Another case in point, car rentals. Again, using our Daytona Beach > trip as an example, we were able to rent a car for approx. $30.00 per > day, reserved in June of this year. Again, checking to see if I got a > good deal, after September 11th the best rate available was $46.00 per > day. I checked on rates for February of 2002 in anticipation of a > return trip and the rates had risen — best I could find was $51 per > day. Again, where are the supposed price cuts to get us travelling > again? > Now, tonight on the news they announced that US air is going to stop > offering pillows and blankets on domestic flights to save money. > What’s next, no toilet paper in the john? > Again, will I stop travelling — no. But, I can definitely see where > people who are on the fence because of price and quality of service > will. For my part, I am scouring every discount travel site and > travel promotion notification e-mail I receive very carefully — I > refuse to pay full price for less than full service, now more than > ever. > Has the travel industry cut prices to get us moving again? Other than > within the motel industry, in my experience NO! > >"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in >a > >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To >which > >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the >country. > >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary >of > >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > >commercials to get them back. Find out why at > >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > >What do you think? > >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel >stories > >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter >at > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist >Prices for rental cars, flights, and hotels are more >expensive in Florida between Oct-April because it is high season down here. >Between April-Sept it is low season and sometimes as much as 30-50% cheaper.

Response:

I think you are an idiot and do not represent the mindset intellegent people. You also embarass me that you are an American. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories > sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Response:

>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

I think you’re going down a well-trodden path, but it’s wrong. You mention the massive increase in business fares: that’s indicative of the fact that the travel industry was heading away from econo-travel and leaning more-and-more on business, from the mid eighties. What we saw from mid-summer (11 sept only happened in the midst of it by chance) was that business travel was already falling extraordinarily. At the end of August, american airline companies were signalling that the dreaded "Saturday Night Stay" requirement for low fares was being dropped. Why? To boost business travel. I travelled overseas in August on a 747 that was about 20% occupied. Why was travel dropping? a) because of the global recession, companies all around the world had less money to spend. b) [to a much smaller degree] IT means travel is not such a cost effective way of communicating. c) because of the recession, people have less to spend. Why did the travel [esp airline, but also hotel etc] industry abandon the "holiday maker" and focus on business? Because of the "Wallmart Culture". People expect bargain-basement price for everything, and to be able to consume lots for next to nothing. Travel can only be pared so far, and, at the heart of it, it is an extravagance. Industry wants bread and butter, not just the crumbs. So tourist travel gets crummy. What did you miss? PHONE CHARGES IN HOTELS! Sending a 2 page FAX can cost you $10. 20 minutes on a local-call to your airline can cost you 30 ukp (40 dollars!) Never mind the impossibility of email. You mentioned it in passing, but it deserves an article on its own: in today’s world it’s the equivalent of charging $10 for a glass of water. It’s price gouging at its most virulent. But they all do it, and they all get away with it. Info technology will soon become one of the most important commodities to travellers, and the industry is missing the boat. — Ken Tough Pretoria, SA

Response:

> I’ll wait to see if anybody actually responds to or agrees > with the points in the story, but in the meantime, I sure do.

Once the story is posted here, I’ll happily consider it. If someone feels the need to post teasers in a newsgroup, teasing is what they shall get in return.

Response:

We have traveled since Sept. 11th and will continue to do so. Yes, the airlines are cutting back. Not only have they discontinued pillows and blankets but meals on most flights. We flew USAir last weekend and according to the USAir magazine there will be no movies except on transatlantic flights. However, we have had a good experience with American. Months ago we booked flights from Pittsburgh to Barbados for Jan 2002. The travel agent put my husband’s name wrong on the ticket. American would not let her change it but noted the record. Then, USAir added flights to Barbados in Nov. I checked and the price was $300 less per ticket! We considered canceling American and booking USAir (use the American tickets at a later date). When the travel agent called American they matched USAir’s price. When we took the tickets to the airport for exchange they refunded the difference back to the credit card and also corrected my husband’s name on the tickets! I guess the airlines aren’t all bad. Some realize that customer service is as important as cutting back. Stell

Response:

A report on UK TV today indicates a substantial drop in overseas tourism from the US but a slight rise in tourist travel from the UK (year-on-year) after the doom date. For UK airlines this has meant a drop in traffic for BA but a huge increase for Go and Easyjet. — Andrew Nightingale of Cambridge (UK)

Response:

>Before the terrorist attacks the ticket prices remained >just above what I paid (approx. 200 per ticket). After September 11th >the cheapest fare available from US Air for the same route within a >similar time frame was 385 per person — and on top of it my original >purchase was for a direct flight; when Metrojet was decommissioned our >direct flights turned into connections. Where are the incentives to >get America flying again? This is just one instance where prices have >risen, not lessened.

I go to Jamaica every Easter for carnival. Last year AA charged $450 RT from LAX. This year they want $790 RT from LAX. As a result, I may not go. john

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To >which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the >country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary >of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think? >I think you are an idiot and do not represent the mindset intellegent >people. You also embarass me that you are an American.

Did you read the Web page? I don’t think that’s the work of an idiot. I may not agree with it, but it’s not idiocy.

Response:

Blah, blah blah…… If ya can’t afford to travel , don’t do it. But making it sound like a conspiracy in the travel industry….well it’s not. I believe it’s called business survival. This IS a travel NG, travelers READ and participate in TRAVEL….. No wonder you got flamed, look who you are preaching to. Me…….Mexico in April (Copper Canyon), three weeks in the Turks & Caicos in July for the third time (no island rut here, diving is TERRIFIC) and then back to Kauai in Sept.

Response:

>Blah, blah blah…… >If ya can’t afford to travel , don’t do it. But making it sound like a >conspiracy in the travel industry….well it’s not. >I believe it’s called business survival. >This IS a travel NG, travelers READ and participate in TRAVEL….. >No wonder you got flamed, look who you are preaching to.

Hm, I think you got me confused with the original poster? This is my first post in this thread, and all I said was that while I don’t necessarily agree with the Web page, I don’t think it’s the work of an idiot. I wasn’t flamed (at least, not yet!), it was the original poster that was. That’s certainly not my Web page.

Response:

>>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. > Whatever you say Mr. Spam. Now back to our regularly scheduled offtopic > distractions.

Bob, that’s the best answer I’ve seen yet. Ourselves, we are going to Florida to visit our daughter in January. I have just bought a Michelin green guide to help us with the time when our daughter is working and we will want to see things on our own. Our number one choice so far, in south Florida which we have never visited before, is what the Michelin Green guide calls the "Ancient Spanish Monastery", a William Randolph Hearst reconstruction which got named, once in Florida, "the monastery of Saint Bernard de Clairvaux". Knowing of the original "monastery of Saint Bernard de Clairvaux", located in beautiful downtown Clairvaux, we want to compare. We especially want to know if the following conditions prevail at the Florida monastery: 1) you have to leave picture ID before visiting; 2) if you are a woman, you have to leave your purse in your car; 3) you cannot take pictures; 4) if this one, too, is located within the walls of a maximum security prison. The Michelin Guide ranks the "Ancient Spanish Monastery" as a two-star tourist attraction. The original Clairvaux version is not even mentioned in the guidebooks. Face it, the tourists are frightened by the maximum security prison aspect, and the people they just might run into. Consider the above an offtopic distraction, whether or not regularly scheduled, but which I am glad to provide. Donna Evleth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com> > Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html> > French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11>

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >>new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To >>which >>a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >>answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the >>country. >>Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >>travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary >>of >>travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >>commercials to get them back. > Whatever you say Mr. Spam. Now back to our regularly scheduled offtopic > distractions. >Bob, that’s the best answer I’ve seen yet. Ourselves, we are going to >Florida to visit our daughter in January. I have just bought a Michelin >green guide to help us with the time when our daughter is working and we >will want to see things on our own. Our number one choice so far, in south >Florida which we have never visited before, is what the Michelin Green guide >calls the "Ancient Spanish Monastery", a William Randolph Hearst >reconstruction which got named, once in Florida, "the monastery of Saint >Bernard de Clairvaux". Knowing of the original "monastery of Saint Bernard >de Clairvaux", located in beautiful downtown Clairvaux, we want to compare. >We especially want to know if the following conditions prevail at the >Florida monastery: 1) you have to leave picture ID before visiting; 2) if >you are a woman, you have to leave your purse in your car; 3) you cannot >take pictures; 4) if this one, too, is located within the walls of a maximum >security prison. >The Michelin Guide ranks the "Ancient Spanish Monastery" as a two-star >tourist attraction. The original Clairvaux version is not even mentioned in >the guidebooks. Face it, the tourists are frightened by the maximum >security prison aspect, and the people they just might run into. >Consider the above an offtopic distraction, whether or not regularly >scheduled, but which I am glad to provide.

Is this the place with the octagonal kitchen that had eight fireplaces? — Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com> Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html> French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11>

Response:

> We have traveled since Sept. 11th and will continue to do so. > Yes, the airlines are cutting back. Not only have they discontinued > pillows and blankets but meals on most flights. We flew USAir last > weekend and according to the USAir magazine there will be no movies > except on transatlantic flights. > However, we have had a good experience with American.

I just got back from Puerto Rico (to L.A.) on American. You do get a little more room between seats, not a whole lot, though. Going from LA to Florida, there was a midnight snack (a hot turkey sandwich–OK) and going back the other way, there was dinner (again, just OK) The Florida-PR segment didn’t have meals, but we got free headphones. We also got them on the return Florida-LA segment because the plane cleaners forgot to remove them from the seat backs. This was my second trip since 9/11 (I went transatlantic to London last September)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >>>new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To >>>which >>>a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >>>answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the >>>country. >>>Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >>>travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary >>>of >>>travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >>>commercials to get them back. >> Whatever you say Mr. Spam. Now back to our regularly scheduled offtopic >> distractions. >Bob, that’s the best answer I’ve seen yet. Ourselves, we are going to >Florida to visit our daughter in January. I have just bought a Michelin >green guide to help us with the time when our daughter is working and we >will want to see things on our own. Our number one choice so far, in south >Florida which we have never visited before, is what the Michelin Green guide >calls the "Ancient Spanish Monastery", a William Randolph Hearst >reconstruction which got named, once in Florida, "the monastery of Saint >Bernard de Clairvaux". Knowing of the original "monastery of Saint Bernard >de Clairvaux", located in beautiful downtown Clairvaux, we want to compare. >We especially want to know if the following conditions prevail at the >Florida monastery: 1) you have to leave picture ID before visiting; 2) if >you are a woman, you have to leave your purse in your car; 3) you cannot >take pictures; 4) if this one, too, is located within the walls of a maximum >security prison. >The Michelin Guide ranks the "Ancient Spanish Monastery" as a two-star >tourist attraction. The original Clairvaux version is not even mentioned in >the guidebooks. Face it, the tourists are frightened by the maximum >security prison aspect, and the people they just might run into. >Consider the above an offtopic distraction, whether or not regularly >scheduled, but which I am glad to provide. > Is this the place with the octagonal kitchen that had eight fireplaces?

I really don’t think so. I think that is down in the Loire Valley somewhere. I remember visiting it once, but that was over 20 years ago. In any case, I have not actually visited the Clairvaux monastery in Clairvaux, that is to say I have not taken their guided tour. I have visited Clairvaux, but in another context. Donna Evleth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com> > Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html> > French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11>

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think? > By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories > sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

Whatever.. I just got back from 9 days in the UK and had a great time. Hide under your rock if you want to.. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think? > By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories > sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

BALDERDASH! I just returned from a trip to Playa del Carmen Mexico and flew out of Newark EWR one of the airports that the 911 terrorists hijacked a plane from. I had a wonderful time in Playa. I was very impressed by the level of security both at Newark, Cancun, and Houston Int’l airports. If you planed a trip and are thinking of canceling, I say take that trip. Enjoy meeting people of different and interesting cultures. Don’t let the nay sayers and fear mongers screw you over. Since security is doing it’s job at the airports, you will have to allow more time when you travel. Standing on lines a little longer is worth it to know that air flight is more secure than it’s ever been. — Brian "Oh Big Daddy, you don’t think I ravaged a football hero?" – Maggie ‘Cat On A Hot Tin Roof’ — View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951 To Reply, Edit "NOSPAM" from my email address. —-

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given that I get thru the checkpoints, I can make it from SEA to EWR in 5 hours. Ground time to = 1 hour (parking, whatever) ground time from to visit = 1 hour (rental is "elite" and carry-on only) total time for 2500 miles (more or less) = 7 hours. Notice that the 2 hours of travel in/out of the airport is still the same (I like red-eyes for going EAST) Not being familiar with the situation at EWR since 06/01 I don’t know what to expect on the return – taking worst case, maybe add an hour coming back. What I really mean is that I can go SEA-SAN including trans and etc in _5_ hours EASILY. I drove it in January – it took 24 hours including the "sleep stop" (and I don’t waste time, either). I drive to Portland because of the ticket cost, otherwise, 3 hours on the road each direction. Because of 2 or 3 hour waits at the BC border, I’m considering taking the train to Vancouver instead of driving.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > Really? > Five hours on the road (four hours driving, plus stops) will take me > from my front door to my mother’s. > Are you telling us that (even if we use airport terminal front doors > as our mileage posts) you can fly 2,500 miles in that time?

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> I think you are a troll, and a stupid one at that. > People who don’t want to travel don’t come to the travel ng’s.

A spamming troll at that, give the header. This showed up on three of the newsgroups I look at . Julie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

Actually, I think this is one of the few things done that has made flying slight more pleasant (and, of course, everything is relative). The concourses are less crowded, it’s easier to find a seat at the bar, there as fewer screaming children running around — all in all, a general improvement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now, if they start to train those screeners, that closer scrutiny might be implemented. > I believe that the other change that was made that has value is the use of > trained personnel for curb-side check-in as opposed to glorified valets. It > will be interesting to see what happens to curcb-side check-in with the recent > security bill requiring all luggage to be screened. Hopefully curb-side check > in will permanently go away.

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One persons opinion. I’ve seen and heard enough ‘no-travel’ or ‘reduced travel’ excuses due to the economy and fear to believe they are significant factors in the downturn as well. The increased time for check-in and security checks is a big deterent for me, especially since I don’t think they yield a significant benefit.

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> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time.

Really? Five hours on the road (four hours driving, plus stops) will take me from my front door to my mother’s. Are you telling us that (even if we use airport terminal front doors as our mileage posts) you can fly 2,500 miles in that time?

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> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid:

Air transportation IS a commodity, and if you think otherwise you may, in fact, be deserving of that label. And, as with any other commodity, pre-OR-post-Sept. 11 you still are the one making the purchasing decision. You and you alone have the choice of when and IF to fly, and what you’re willing to pay for the service level you’re being offered. Just as soon as the airlines start holding a gun to your head and forcing you to spend whatever they say for whatever they offer, you’ll have a point. Bob M.

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>> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > Five hours on the road (four hours driving, plus stops) will take me > from my front door to my mother’s. > Are you telling us that (even if we use airport terminal front doors > as our mileage posts) you can fly 2,500 miles in that time?

That’s 500mph. I suspect I can manage that (and since my mother is 3000 miles away, it’s as good thing I can). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid: > Air transportation IS a commodity, and if you think otherwise you > may, in fact, be deserving of that label. And, as with any other > commodity, pre-OR-post-Sept. 11 you still are the one making the > purchasing decision. You and you alone have the choice of when > and IF to fly, and what you’re willing to pay for the service level > you’re being offered. > Just as soon as the airlines start holding a gun to your head and > forcing you to spend whatever they say for whatever they offer, > you’ll have a point.

Unfortunately, those fucking unions hold that gun to the airline’s heads every day….hence the price you pay! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob M.

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> By the way, US Airways is the major one that serves our home airport of > Albany, NY.

I always use Southwest to get to Albany; much more pleasant. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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> I am flying to San Juan on AA, a three and a half hour flight, that is > over $400 rt and they are not going to serve anything. I agree the way > they are treating passengers will come back to haunt them. I don”t want > to fly under those conditions.

I find this (admittedly common) viewpoint a little strange. I paid a lot more than $400 to be treated at the emergency room last week after being hit by a car, spent about 3-1/2 hours, and nobody served me any food there either. I paid thousands of dollars for college tuition, spent thousands of hours in the classroom, and no food was included. Many people spend tens of thousands of dollars buying cars that they drive all over the place. Guess what? No food; they have to buy their own. People expect food on planes because there has been food in the past. And it is nice when they serve food, because it takes up some time on a boring flight and fills your stomach if you’re extremely petite. However, I personally don’t fly for the food. If I want food and they’re not serving, I am perfectly capable of coming up with my own. I expect most other people are too. I fly to get from one place to another faster and cheaper than I could any other way. Some of the changes in service may be annoying and may influence my decision to choose one carrier over another, but I couldn’t imagine saying that I wasn’t going to fly anymore because they weren’t serving meals. It just makes no sense. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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I think you are a troll, and a stupid one at that. People who don’t want to travel don’t come to the travel ng’s. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a > new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which > a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff > answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. > Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the > travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of > travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of > commercials to get them back. Find out why at > http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm > What do you think? > By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories > sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, > terrorizes > > it’s citizens. Worked rather well too, in light of all the civil > liberties > > americanse USED to have which can now be tromped on thanks to a single > > stroke of a pen by Dubya. Go figure. > Could you name one ? > For starters, this newsgroup posting you just made – as well as all your > email, now goes through the FBI’s Carnivore system.

So your saying as a direct result of Bush’s signature of the antiterrorism and/or the congressional endorsement of war powers, that as of that date, the way ‘Carnivore’ is being used on U.S. Citizens has changed ? Is that what you are saying… cause that is not correct. Is that "all" you have ? jay Thu, Dec 6, 2001 Remember, the stroke of > that pen gave the government the right to track everything you do on the > internet, let alone what anyone does in their homes – which are now subject > to search and seizure without warrants. > jay > Thu, Dec 6, 2001 > — > Legend insists that as he finished his abject… > Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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> No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes > it’s citizens. Worked rather well too, in light of all the civil liberties > americanse USED to have which can now be tromped on thanks to a single > stroke of a pen by Dubya. Go figure. > Could you name one ?

For starters, this newsgroup posting you just made – as well as all your email, now goes through the FBI’s Carnivore system. Remember, the stroke of that pen gave the government the right to track everything you do on the internet, let alone what anyone does in their homes – which are now subject to search and seizure without warrants. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> jay > Thu, Dec 6, 2001 > — > Legend insists that as he finished his abject… > Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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> What about other convenient check ins? Some airlines will actually go to a > cruise port and check in their connecting passengers right there – haul > their luggage back to the airport and toss it on the plane as a convenience. > No one really knows what bag belongs to what passenger at that point.

FWIW… the airlines are no longer doing remote location check-in at the cruise ports. While I see the need for increased security, I also see that the steps taken so far would not stop a determined terrorist. Security measures for the most part inconvenience honest passengers and would do little to deter real terrorists. Last month in the Miami airport I checked my bags at the curb then at security they x-rayed my shoes. In Philadelphia there was no curbside check-in but my shoes went through security unmolested. There is no rhyme or reason or consistency to the security measures in effect. George in PA <— flying to Tampa in 5 weeks — Countryside Travel: www.CruiseMaster.com Join us on the GGC2002: www.ggc2002.com

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> No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes > it’s citizens.

What about the thousands of people lost in the World Trade Center, I think that alone is enough to terrorize american citizens. Not forgeting the pentagon or the penn. plane either. sue,

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Could you name one ? jay Thu, Dec 6, 2001 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

Same thing they did with Bush Sr.’s Gulf War. It wore off eventually and we can bet this round of crack downs with Bush Jr.’s Terrorism War will wear off also – it just takes time and a lot of passenger bitching and lost revenue. No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes it’s citizens. Worked rather well too, in light of all the civil liberties americanse USED to have which can now be tromped on thanks to a single stroke of a pen by Dubya. Go figure. > Now, if they start to train those screeners, that closer scrutiny might be implemented. > I believe that the other change that was made that has value is the use of > trained personnel for curb-side check-in as opposed to glorified valets. It > will be interesting to see what happens to curcb-side check-in with the recent > security bill requiring all luggage to be screened. Hopefully curb-side check > in will permanently go away.

What about other convenient check ins? Some airlines will actually go to a cruise port and check in their connecting passengers right there – haul their luggage back to the airport and toss it on the plane as a convenience. No one really knows what bag belongs to what passenger at that point.

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> The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very > little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come > back to haunt them.

I am flying to San Juan on AA, a three and a half hour flight, that is over $400 rt and they are not going to serve anything. I agree the way they are treating passengers will come back to haunt them. I don”t want to fly under those conditions. — Charles

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stated… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why

at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

Agree as far as air travel goes. For the past few years I have been travelling, mostly, on AMTRAK. It has its problems, but if you have the time, it certainly beats flying. The airlines have downgraded their service so much as to make flying unbearable to me. Long check-in lines. Nasty personnell. FA’s with bad attitudes and a knack for rudeness. Silent pilots.(gods?-overpaid and underworked). When I do fly it is usually to London on Virgin Atlantic. One of the few airlines that seems to get it right. Ozzie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

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While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints. Now, if they start to train those screeners, that closer scrutiny might be implemented. I believe that the other change that was made that has value is the use of trained personnel for curb-side check-in as opposed to glorified valets. It will be interesting to see what happens to curcb-side check-in with the recent security bill requiring all luggage to be screened. Hopefully curb-side check in will permanently go away.

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disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I fully agree. It has become much more convenient to get in the car and > drive, especially if it is a fairly short distance. > The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very > little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come > back to haunt them. There are exceptions; I understand that Jet Blue is one, > but from our area they only fly from Tampa to NY so the choice is limited. > While increased security has become necessary ( I know of no one who > disagrees with this), it has been carried to the nonsense extreme in some > cases such as detailed here by the family who were picked for full screening > and delayed so that they almost missed their cruise and shuffled around from > flight to flight to flight because of the several delays causing them to > miss flights. All because they had their original flight canceled ,and > because they were rebooked, they were shown to fit the "profile" of last > minute bookings when actually they had been booked many months before the > trip. > Bob > > Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 1. eliminating whatever remnants of "service" existed prior to that > date, > such as > a. longer lines > b. no meals > c. no blankets (US Airways) > d. no pillows (US Airways) > e. no magazines (American, US Airways) > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid: > a. The refusal of the airlines to eliminate the fuel surcharge even > though fuel costs have dropped > b. The fact that even though they have attempted to get the word out > that fares have been lowered, > in most cases they have not. > I think that the events of September 11th were used as an excuse to do > what > the airlines were wanting to do – cut their costs more at the expense of > the > passengers. If they would rationalize fares, and realize they offer a > service, they would attract back passengers. I hate to say it, but > deregulation, 23 years later in the U.S., was a major disaster, IMHO.

I fully agree! Service got so abysmal BEFORE Sept. 11 that my wife & I, who had been avid travelers and flew to lots of places (including cruise sites), stopped flying entirely LONG before that horrible day. We have seen NOTHING that would prompt us to fly again. By the way, US Airways is the major one that serves our home airport of Albany, NY. William H. Pittman

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I fully agree. It has become much more convenient to get in the car and drive, especially if it is a fairly short distance. The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come back to haunt them. There are exceptions; I understand that Jet Blue is one, but from our area they only fly from Tampa to NY so the choice is limited. While increased security has become necessary ( I know of no one who disagrees with this), it has been carried to the nonsense extreme in some cases such as detailed here by the family who were picked for full screening and delayed so that they almost missed their cruise and shuffled around from flight to flight to flight because of the several delays causing them to miss flights. All because they had their original flight canceled ,and because they were rebooked, they were shown to fit the "profile" of last minute bookings when actually they had been booked many months before the trip. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as

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Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the airlines for: 1. eliminating whatever remnants of "service" existed prior to that date, such as a. longer lines b. no meals c. no blankets (US Airways) d. no pillows (US Airways) e. no magazines (American, US Airways) 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and passengers are stupid: a. The refusal of the airlines to eliminate the fuel surcharge even though fuel costs have dropped b. The fact that even though they have attempted to get the word out that fares have been lowered, in most cases they have not. I think that the events of September 11th were used as an excuse to do what the airlines were wanting to do – cut their costs more at the expense of the passengers. If they would rationalize fares, and realize they offer a service, they would attract back passengers. I hate to say it, but deregulation, 23 years later in the U.S., was a major disaster, IMHO. Jeff

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> I think you are a troll, and a stupid one at that. > People who don’t want to travel don’t come to the travel ng’s.

A spamming troll at that, give the header. This showed up on three of the newsgroups I look at . Julie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid:

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That’s 500mph. I suspect I can manage that (and since my mother is 3000 miles away, it’s as good thing I can). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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Unfortunately, those fucking unions hold that gun to the airline’s heads every day….hence the price you pay! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob M.

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> By the way, US Airways is the major one that serves our home airport of > Albany, NY.

I always use Southwest to get to Albany; much more pleasant. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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> No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes > it’s citizens.

What about the thousands of people lost in the World Trade Center, I think that alone is enough to terrorize american citizens. Not forgeting the pentagon or the penn. plane either. sue,

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Could you name one ? jay Thu, Dec 6, 2001 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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> The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very > little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come > back to haunt them.

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at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

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> No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes > it’s citizens.

What about the thousands of people lost in the World Trade Center, I think that alone is enough to terrorize american citizens. Not forgeting the pentagon or the penn. plane either. sue,

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Could you name one ? jay Thu, Dec 6, 2001 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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> By the way, US Airways is the major one that serves our home airport of > Albany, NY.

I always use Southwest to get to Albany; much more pleasant. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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>I personally don’t fly for the food. If I want food and they’re not >serving, I am perfectly capable of coming up with my own.

The lines at the airline concession stands may be a bit longer than *normal*, but I have to agree. The Italian sub I got at FLL a few weeks ago, and ate on the plane, was better than anything I’ve EVER been served on an aircraft! It was well worth the wait! Pam : ) Official Virtual Cruise Director http://allcruiseauction.atinfopop.com/ http://www.allcruiseauction.com/html/categories.htm

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> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid:

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That’s 500mph. I suspect I can manage that (and since my mother is 3000 miles away, it’s as good thing I can). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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Unfortunately, those fucking unions hold that gun to the airline’s heads every day….hence the price you pay! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob M.

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> The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very > little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come > back to haunt them.

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at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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> Think before replying. Your response could be modified to meet Mr. Elliott’s > needs.

Good thing I didn’t visit his site. My newsgroup response remains mine to do with as I will. Phew.

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tired of travel? I think not! We’re not changing our travel habits and can’t wait until our return to Greece next September…

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>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back.

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> I’ll wait to see if anybody actually responds to or agrees > with the points in the story, but in the meantime, I sure do.

Once the story is posted here, I’ll happily consider it. If someone feels the need to post teasers in a newsgroup, teasing is what they shall get in return.

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I go to Jamaica every Easter for carnival. Last year AA charged $450 RT from LAX. This year they want $790 RT from LAX. As a result, I may not go. john

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Did you read the Web page? I don’t think that’s the work of an idiot. I may not agree with it, but it’s not idiocy.

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>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

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> Americans aren’t just wary of travel; they’re sick of it.

Please don’t lump my family into your generalization. We feel exactly the opposite, and would hate for you to give the wrong impression. Thank you.

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>Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. <snippedthespam>

Huh? I don’t think so.

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From the link below: "All e-mailed questions may be edited, condensed or republished at the site’s discretion." Think before replying. Your response could be modified to meet Mr. Elliott’s needs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think? >By the way, if you want to get these commentaries and other travel stories >sent to you weekly, I invite you to sign up for my free e-mail newsletter at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elliottslist

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> No one seems to realize that no one was really terrorizing american > citizens, they were terrorizing american government, who in turn, terrorizes > it’s citizens.

What about the thousands of people lost in the World Trade Center, I think that alone is enough to terrorize american citizens. Not forgeting the pentagon or the penn. plane either. sue,

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Could you name one ? jay Thu, Dec 6, 2001 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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> By the way, US Airways is the major one that serves our home airport of > Albany, NY.

I always use Southwest to get to Albany; much more pleasant. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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>I personally don’t fly for the food. If I want food and they’re not >serving, I am perfectly capable of coming up with my own.

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> Americans are sick of the using of September 11th as an excuse by the > airlines for: > 2. the general assumption that air transportation is a commodity and > passengers are stupid:

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That’s 500mph. I suspect I can manage that (and since my mother is 3000 miles away, it’s as good thing I can). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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Unfortunately, those fucking unions hold that gun to the airline’s heads every day….hence the price you pay! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob M.

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> The airlines have become nothing but inconvenient cattle cars with very > little if any customer service. Their attitude is eventually going to come > back to haunt them.

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at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> disagree with increased security? IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT DID ANYTHING. > There is NO (repeat NO) value in the changes made since 9/11. NOTHING is > different, just longer lines. BTW – if you are going 5 hours on the road, > enjoy the trip. I’ll fly 10 times farther in the same time. > While I generally agree with your statement, I do believe that there have been > improvements. I think that the biggest improvement made was that only ticketed > passengers were allowed airside. Reducing the number of people coming in and > out of airside *allows* closer scrutiny at the checkpoints.

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> Think before replying. Your response could be modified to meet Mr. Elliott’s > needs.

Good thing I didn’t visit his site. My newsgroup response remains mine to do with as I will. Phew.

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tired of travel? I think not! We’re not changing our travel habits and can’t wait until our return to Greece next September…

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>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back.

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> I’ll wait to see if anybody actually responds to or agrees > with the points in the story, but in the meantime, I sure do.

Once the story is posted here, I’ll happily consider it. If someone feels the need to post teasers in a newsgroup, teasing is what they shall get in return.

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I go to Jamaica every Easter for carnival. Last year AA charged $450 RT from LAX. This year they want $790 RT from LAX. As a result, I may not go. john

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Did you read the Web page? I don’t think that’s the work of an idiot. I may not agree with it, but it’s not idiocy.

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>"Americans are asking: ‘What is expected of us?’" President Bush says in a >new TV ad sponsored by the Travel Industry Association of America. To which >a chorus of hotel employees, airline crew members and cruise line staff >answer: "We ask you to live your lives. Do your business around the country. >Fly and enjoy America’s great destinations." But the president and the >travel industry may be asking too much of us. Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. And it’s going to take more than a couple of >commercials to get them back. Find out why at >http://www.elliott.org/vault/oped/tia.htm >What do you think?

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> Americans aren’t just wary of travel; they’re sick of it.

Please don’t lump my family into your generalization. We feel exactly the opposite, and would hate for you to give the wrong impression. Thank you.

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>Americans aren’t just wary of >travel; they’re sick of it. <snippedthespam>

Huh? I don’t think so.

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Address: http://air-travel.fuzziday.com/air-travel/why-we-wont-travel-373786.html

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