Air Travel

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bush & his cronies have done a good job brainwashing many Americans after > 9/11 in the name of "security".  I think many people are slowly coming to > this conclusion, but unfortunately he has the majority scared, neurotic, or > a combination of both.  It seems to me the DHS alert Christmas Tree is > becoming a political tool which scare Americans into believing everything > the Bush Camp speaks. > Hopefully a good Democratic or Independent candidate will emerge. > Hopefully enough democratic or independent voters will turn out during > the next election to counter the moral-majority / evangelical > christian vote.  The Bush white-house is full of those people and > their middle-east foreign policy is nothing less than a hair-brained > attempt to insure biblical prophecy enfolds to result in the "second > coming".  While tax-payers foot the bill, military servicemen die with > each passing day, and the economy sliding further and further into the > toilet.

"Second Coming"???  Did they lose the Chapter on the "Anti-Christ" in Revelations??  Gets real scary when religious zealots get a hold of important positions in government.  Well….it’s up to US to make sure they don’t! Trice

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > > told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > > Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > > be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > But the Iran affair won’t be over yet by then. > From an ABC poll: "Most Americans would back US military action against >  Iran > to stop it from acquiring nuclear weapons" > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s887373.htm > Hell, lets just take military action against EVERY country that might have a > chance at acquiring nuclear weapons.  <gag> > I saw a similar poll and found it disturbing.  We don’t have Osama Bin > Laden, Afghanistan is a mess, Iraq is becoming a huge mess with one to two > US and/or British servicemen/women getting killed daily, no one knows about > Saddam’s whereabouts, no WMDs have been found, and now Bush is looking at > Iran with a large percentage of Americans support.   Let’s not forget about > North Korea. > Bush & his cronies have done a good job brainwashing many Americans after > 9/11 in the name of "security".  I think many people are slowly coming to > this conclusion, but unfortunately he has the majority scared, neurotic, or > a combination of both.  It seems to me the DHS alert Christmas Tree is > becoming a political tool which scare Americans into believing everything > the Bush Camp speaks. > Hopefully a good Democratic or Independent candidate will emerge. > Best, > Steve

The problem with this is that people seem to be in some trance where they feel they MUST vote for their party candidate even if they don’t want him in!  Even if a good Democrat or Independent candidate appears unless he has a good press agent and fantastic charisma he/she won’t stand a chance against Bush and all the religious voters backing him and the "money" also!  Frankly, I need to study more about General Clark but personally I think he has the "Charisma" to get the votes if he can get the right "Press Agent".    There is a list of all the candidates so far on the internet so now is the time for us to give the others serious thought. Trice

Response:

… >That is all very interesting, to some, as a polemic, but it is nothing more >than a polemic. The USA didn’t start to take security seriously until the >events of 11 September 2001. IMHO they are doing lots of things wrongly but >much of that is because airports in the USA were designed to facilitate the >process of flying, with no consideration to security. So lots of what is >happening is "bolt-on" measures.

All very true – of course, the basic problem is that the Usenet is not the place to be having this discussion.  There is a long left-leaning tradition on the Usenet, which, by and large, serves it well, given its original (*) academic/technical orientation.  But, for discussing politics, especially in trying times such as this, it’s not the right place. Again, IMNSHO, the following quote says everything you need to know in order to understand the political tripe you see in just about every Usenet newsgroup today:     "Perhaps the most disheartening development of the war–     at home, anyway–is the number of liberals who have allowed     Bush-hatred to take the place of thinking."         –Jonathan Chait, Senior Editor The New Republic See, the real problem is that most Usenetters just loved Daddy Bill, and it naturally follows that if you liked Bill, you’re not going to like George. It’s like comparing oatmeal and Super Sugar Coasted Frosted Crunchy Bombs (or whatever it was that Calvin was always eating) (**). (*) And still highest and best use (IMNSHO). (**) In case this isn’t clear, ask yourself the following questions:         1) Which one is more fun to eat?         2) Which one is better for you?

Response:

> > Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it doesn’t appear > to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL newsgroup which is (supposedly) > about AIR TRAVEL. And I am aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread. > Won’t be the first time or the last time things have gotten off topic here > > Best, > Steve

Steve, I do not consider this thread really off topic since our displeasure with the government has a lot to do with what is going on at the AIRPORTS and Election 2004 and who wins may decide if the hassles continue, get improved upon, or are discontinued so that we can return to air travel with more peace of mine.  It’s not nearly as OT as some of the other ridiculous threads I have seen spread like wild fire on RTA. Trice

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it > > doesn’t appear to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL > > newsgroup which is (supposedly) about AIR TRAVEL. And I am > > aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread. > Won’t be the first time or the last time things have gotten off > topic here > I can think of no single topic that has come to effect global and US > air travel more than the foreign and domestic policy of the Bush > white-house. > You want to understand why elderly grandmothers are forced to take > their shoes off at airport screening stations?  You want to know why > civil rights and privacy and due-process is being eroded by things > like CAPPS and no-fly lists?  You want to know why private property is > being stolen from state-mandated-unlocked-bags?  You want to > understand all that, and explore / discuss why and what it will take > to restore flying to a civilized, rational, and profitable activity? > If so, then much discussion will logically center around the policies > of the Bush administration and the mindset of un-elected > neo-conservatives that are formulating foreign and domestic policy.

That is all very interesting, to some, as a polemic, but it is nothing more than a polemic. The USA didn’t start to take security seriously until the events of 11 September 2001. IMHO they are doing lots of things wrongly but much of that is because airports in the USA were designed to facilitate the process of flying, with no consideration to security. So lots of what is happening is "bolt-on" measures. I don’t think that the foreign policy of the current USA administration has had any effect on non-US air travel, but I am sure you will state otherwise if you think I am wrong. (I am aware of the US requests for information which fall foul of EU Data Protection but I attribute that to incompetence rather than malice). An elderly grandmother would not normally be regarded as a terrorist threat, but of course a terrorist would be very aware of that too. I am elderly, and male, and a grandfather and I have no problems at all in complying on the rare occasion that I have been asked to remove my shoes at European or USA airports. The last time it happened was at LHR when flying BA and on the previous occasion it was at LGW when flying AA to DFW. JohnT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bush & his cronies have done a good job brainwashing many Americans after > 9/11 in the name of "security".  I think many people are slowly coming to > this conclusion, but unfortunately he has the majority scared, neurotic, or > a combination of both.  It seems to me the DHS alert Christmas Tree is > becoming a political tool which scare Americans into believing everything > the Bush Camp speaks. > Hopefully a good Democratic or Independent candidate will emerge. > Hopefully enough democratic or independent voters will turn out during > the next election to counter the moral-majority / evangelical > christian vote.  The Bush white-house is full of those people and > their middle-east foreign policy is nothing less than a hair-brained > attempt to insure biblical prophecy enfolds to result in the "second > coming".  While tax-payers foot the bill, military servicemen die with > each passing day, and the economy sliding further and further into the > toilet.

Hopefully enough Democratic voters will be competent to cast ballots that count – Bush won in Florida by approximately a thousand votes, depending on which recount you pay attention to. Almost 100,000 ballots were invalidated. Being as the GOP was sure it was only the Dems who were so stupid, Gore would have won hands down. Chris

Response:

> > Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > But the Iran affair won’t be over yet by then. > From an ABC poll: "Most Americans would back US military action against Iran > to stop it from acquiring nuclear weapons" > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s887373.htm

Hell, lets just take military action against EVERY country that might have a chance at acquiring nuclear weapons.  <gag> I saw a similar poll and found it disturbing.  We don’t have Osama Bin Laden, Afghanistan is a mess, Iraq is becoming a huge mess with one to two US and/or British servicemen/women getting killed daily, no one knows about Saddam’s whereabouts, no WMDs have been found, and now Bush is looking at Iran with a large percentage of Americans support.   Let’s not forget about North Korea. Bush & his cronies have done a good job brainwashing many Americans after 9/11 in the name of "security".  I think many people are slowly coming to this conclusion, but unfortunately he has the majority scared, neurotic, or a combination of both.  It seems to me the DHS alert Christmas Tree is becoming a political tool which scare Americans into believing everything the Bush Camp speaks. Hopefully a good Democratic or Independent candidate will emerge. Best, Steve

Response:

> Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it doesn’t appear > to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL newsgroup which is (supposedly) > about AIR TRAVEL. And I am aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread.

Won’t be the first time or the last time things have gotten off topic here Best, Steve

Response:

> Bush & his cronies have done a good job brainwashing many Americans after > 9/11 in the name of "security".  I think many people are slowly coming to > this conclusion, but unfortunately he has the majority scared, neurotic, or > a combination of both.  It seems to me the DHS alert Christmas Tree is > becoming a political tool which scare Americans into believing everything > the Bush Camp speaks. > Hopefully a good Democratic or Independent candidate will emerge.

Hopefully enough democratic or independent voters will turn out during the next election to counter the moral-majority / evangelical christian vote.  The Bush white-house is full of those people and their middle-east foreign policy is nothing less than a hair-brained attempt to insure biblical prophecy enfolds to result in the "second coming".  While tax-payers foot the bill, military servicemen die with each passing day, and the economy sliding further and further into the toilet.

Response:

> > Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it > doesn’t appear to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL > newsgroup which is (supposedly) about AIR TRAVEL. And I am > aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread. > Won’t be the first time or the last time things have gotten off > topic here

I can think of no single topic that has come to effect global and US air travel more than the foreign and domestic policy of the Bush white-house. You want to understand why elderly grandmothers are forced to take their shoes off at airport screening stations?  You want to know why civil rights and privacy and due-process is being eroded by things like CAPPS and no-fly lists?  You want to know why private property is being stolen from state-mandated-unlocked-bags?  You want to understand all that, and explore / discuss why and what it will take to restore flying to a civilized, rational, and profitable activity? If so, then much discussion will logically center around the policies of the Bush administration and the mindset of un-elected neo-conservatives that are formulating foreign and domestic policy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it > > doesn’t appear to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL > > newsgroup which is (supposedly) about AIR TRAVEL. And I am > > aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread. > Won’t be the first time or the last time things have gotten off > topic here > I can think of no single topic that has come to effect global and US > air travel more than the foreign and domestic policy of the Bush > white-house.

We were on a cruise in October 2000.  One of the lunch topics was the elections – and all the people from Britain and Canada wanted to know why, if their lives were so affected by the United States’ choice of president, they could not vote!  In a way, it made a lot of sense – what other country wields so much power over the politics of all the other nations? Chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wake up.  Rove won’t lose.  He just picked up the first installment in > the yard sale this week.  FFM >>>>I for one eagerly await November 2004. >>>Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are >>>ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about >>>terrorism? >>Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies >>told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for >>Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still >>be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > Hopefully so Meghan if we can get Bill’s "lemmings" to wake up!  I > can’t see the economy doing much better between now and election time > and more people ARE beginning to ask for "real" answers from Bush and > his administration.  My real concern is what else will they try, to > convince us we need them, if they think there is the possibility of > actually losing the election.  How far would they really go to win?? > We shall soon know.  As they say:  "Keep Vigilant and Keep a Watchful > Eye!" > Trice

Are you talking about that paltry 4 million the GOP got from the fundraiser in NY Tuesday 6/24??  A drop in the bucket!  They are hoping to raise 250 million bucks from reports I am getting.  We know they have the money on their side so you can bet Rove is working overtime to make sure his script has the right ending for Bush!<g What concerns me the most is that reports state that over 50 million citizens did not bother to vote in the last election.  Those are the dodos who will help Rove get his script the way he wants it.  Between them and the others who have some nutty idea they MUST vote for their party man even if he isn’t the one they want…you can see why Bush just may get into the White House again.  "I" don’t vote for the party…I vote for my conscience and the MAN or WOMAN who I feel deserves the position.  I have already decided who I will vote for in 2004.  BTW…I know what a lemming is and "I" can’t swim so don’t wait for ME to go into the sea with them!:) Trice

Response:

> Wake up.  Rove won’t lose.  He just picked up the first installment in > the yard sale this week.  FFM

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>>>I for one eagerly await November 2004. > >>>Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are > >>>ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about > >>>terrorism? > >>Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > >>told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > >>Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > >>be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > > Hopefully so Meghan if we can get Bill’s "lemmings" to wake up!  I > > can’t see the economy doing much better between now and election time > > and more people ARE beginning to ask for "real" answers from Bush and > > his administration.  My real concern is what else will they try, to > > convince us we need them, if they think there is the possibility of > > actually losing the election.  How far would they really go to win?? > > We shall soon know.  As they say:  "Keep Vigilant and Keep a Watchful > > Eye!" > > Trice > Are you talking about that paltry 4 million the GOP got from the > fundraiser in NY Tuesday 6/24??  A drop in the bucket!  They are > hoping to raise 250 million bucks from reports I am getting.  We know > they have the money on their side so you can bet Rove is working > overtime to make sure his script has the right ending for Bush!<g > What concerns me the most is that reports state that over 50 million > citizens did not bother to vote in the last election.  Those are the > dodos who will help Rove get his script the way he wants it.  Between > them and the others who have some nutty idea they MUST vote for their > party man even if he isn’t the one they want…you can see why Bush > just may get into the White House again.  "I" don’t vote for the > party…I vote for my conscience and the MAN or WOMAN who I feel > deserves the position.  I have already decided who I will vote for in > 2004.  BTW…I know what a lemming is and "I" can’t swim so don’t wait > for ME to go into the sea with them!:) > Trice

Whilst all of this is (perhaps) very interesting to some it doesn’t appear to be at all relevant to an INTERNATIONAL newsgroup which is (supposedly) about AIR TRAVEL. And I am aware that Trice didn’t initiate the thread. JohnT

Response:

Wake up.  Rove won’t lose.  He just picked up the first installment in the yard sale this week.  FFM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>I for one eagerly await November 2004. >>Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are >>ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about >>terrorism? >Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies >told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for >Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still >be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > Hopefully so Meghan if we can get Bill’s "lemmings" to wake up!  I > can’t see the economy doing much better between now and election time > and more people ARE beginning to ask for "real" answers from Bush and > his administration.  My real concern is what else will they try, to > convince us we need them, if they think there is the possibility of > actually losing the election.  How far would they really go to win?? > We shall soon know.  As they say:  "Keep Vigilant and Keep a Watchful > Eye!" > Trice

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I for one eagerly await November 2004. > > Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are > > ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about > > terrorism? > Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester. > But the Iran affair won’t be over yet by then. > From an ABC poll: "Most Americans would back US military action against Iran > to stop it from acquiring nuclear weapons" > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s887373.htm

Why does ABC never call MY house?  I’d give them an opinion!! Chris

Response:

> > > I for one eagerly await November 2004. > Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are > ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about > terrorism? > Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester.

Hopefully so Meghan if we can get Bill’s "lemmings" to wake up!  I can’t see the economy doing much better between now and election time and more people ARE beginning to ask for "real" answers from Bush and his administration.  My real concern is what else will they try, to convince us we need them, if they think there is the possibility of actually losing the election.  How far would they really go to win?? We shall soon know.  As they say:  "Keep Vigilant and Keep a Watchful Eye!" Trice

Response:

>"A small religious zealot…"

Enough said, I think. Three strikes. I for one eagerly await November 2004. B.

Response:

> I for one eagerly await November 2004.

Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about terrorism?  Bush the first lost because of the poor economy and his inane comments – "Read my lips." – but 9/11 has made many people in the USA paranoid and neurotic.  I hope you are correct, but I fear that you are wrong.  Considering what ‘W’ did without any sort of mandate, I cannot imagine what he’d do after winning again. Casey In 2000, 50.5 million people voted for Bush, 51 million people voted for Gore, and 56 million eligible voters did not vote at all.

Response:

> > I for one eagerly await November 2004. > Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are > ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about > terrorism?

Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester.

Response:

> > I for one eagerly await November 2004. > Don’t you think that there are many sheep in this country who are > ecstatic that the current administration is "doing something" about > terrorism? > Just wait.  The debacle and fallacy of the Iraq invasion, the lies > told by the Bush neo-cons will be front-and-center in time for > Nov-2004.  That, and the good probability that the economy will still > be in the tank, will get people to kick Bush-2 out on his kiester.

But the Iran affair won’t be over yet by then. From an ABC poll: "Most Americans would back US military action against Iran to stop it from acquiring nuclear weapons" http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s887373.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At Heathrow Airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a > public school teacher, was arrested while trying to board a flight > while in possession of a compass, a protractor and a graphical > calculator. Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious > al-Gebra movement. > He was charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.

Response:

> At Heathrow Airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a > public school teacher, was arrested while trying to board a flight > while in possession of a compass, a protractor and a graphical > calculator. Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious > al-Gebra movement. > He was charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.

Serves him right. —  bostnbob

Response:

> > At Heathrow Airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a > public school teacher, was arrested while trying to board a flight > while in possession of a compass, a protractor and a graphical > calculator. Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious > al-Gebra movement. > He was charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.

Now, THAT’S funny!  Thanks! Bwhahahahahahaha! Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

Now, THAT’S funny!  Thanks! It was funny when it circulated about 3 weeks ago, too. 007 — Bill E. Burk Publisher, Elvis World Magazine [Remove "NOSP" from my e-mail address]

Response:

> Now, THAT’S funny!  Thanks! > It was funny when it circulated about 3 weeks ago, too. > 007 > — > Bill E. Burk > Publisher, Elvis World Magazine > [Remove "NOSP" from my e-mail address]

Yeah, but it’s new to some of us.  It’s almost as funny as some of the stuff John Ashcroft does in real life!  Read Jimmy Breslin’s point of view http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/6170775.htm    "A small religious zealot, John Ashcroft, takes their great laws and bravery and, using our new Patriot Act, turns them into fascism. He could do this openly because news reporters go about the government like gardeners, bent over, smiling and nodding when the owners show up." Chris

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