Air Travel

Question:

> OK, I guess I have to ’splain this concept of locking luggage…for > those not quite clear on the concept. > [...] > But apparenly most people don’t realize that locks are not primarily > to keep anyone out of anything.  They are there to deter, and they do > so fairly admirably.  [...]

In addition, the locks on many hardsided bags (Samsonite) do keep the latches from popping open if the bag falls over onto, or is dropped onto, its large side.  Which happens quite a lot in normal handling. > If my lock is cut, I will know that someone was in my bag.  If > something is missing, I have a good suspicion who did it.  If I leave > my bag unlocked, I do not know if anyone has been in it.  If something > is missing, who knows at what point someone rifled through it? > Their goal is to intimidate > people into going along with their program.  Well, they can get > stuffed.  Not happening.  Not this jarhead.  Not now, not ever > (voluntarily).

I have an idea on this.  Tomorrow I’m flying for the first time since the "unlock your checked baggage" rules.  With a checked Samsonite hardside, in which has to be some tools and computer accessories.  And it’s one of those "if I can’t bring this stuff in checked luggage, there is no point making the trip" situations.  So the usual "wise traveler" advice of "don’t check anything you can’t afford to lose" doesn’t really apply. I’m going to put the key (not that any TSA station shouldn’t be without a Samsonite key, they have only used three or four different ones in the last thirty years) inside the leather luggage tag holder, with a prominent label to that effect on the outside.  If they have to get into it, it’ll be easy for them, but it will take considerably more time and fumbling than the typical baggage handler has time for.  It’s a little better than nothing, anyway.         — Jamie Hanrahan         Kernel Mode Systems             http://www.cmkrnl.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK, I guess I have to ’splain this concept of locking luggage…for > those not quite clear on the concept. > [...] > But apparenly most people don’t realize that locks are not primarily > to keep anyone out of anything.  They are there to deter, and they do > so fairly admirably.  [...] > In addition, the locks on many hardsided bags (Samsonite) do keep the > latches from popping open if the bag falls over onto, or is dropped onto, > its large side.  Which happens quite a lot in normal handling. > If my lock is cut, I will know that someone was in my bag.  If > something is missing, I have a good suspicion who did it.  If I leave > my bag unlocked, I do not know if anyone has been in it.  If something > is missing, who knows at what point someone rifled through it? > Their goal is to intimidate > people into going along with their program.  Well, they can get > stuffed.  Not happening.  Not this jarhead.  Not now, not ever > (voluntarily). > I have an idea on this.  Tomorrow I’m flying for the first time since the > "unlock your checked baggage" rules.

Keep in mind that passengers are not required to keep their bags unlocked at every airport.  I depends on the method of inspection being used.  At some airports, baggage inspection takes place as part of the check-in process (either before you approach the counter, or just after it’s tagged) in full sight of the passengers. The TSA inspector will lock the bag after inspecting it, if you ask. (At least that’s how they did it at MCO and ORD). Of course, your bag could be subjected to a secondary inspection after going down into baggageland, in which case they will break the lock.

Response:

>Keep in mind that passengers are not required to keep their bags >unlocked at every airport.  

They’re not "required" to do so at any airport.  Just strongly encouraged at those that use "after check-in" inspection.   I decided the key-in-the-luggage-tag-holder was too inconspicuous, so I settled for a spare key attached to the handle by a bright yellow cable tie.  When the bag arrived in Seattle it had been opened, complete with notice inside.  Nothing from inside was missing, though they did manage to close the bag on one of my shirts, leaving a part of a sleeve dangling. The lock/latches were not broken,  and in fact had been relocked, but the key was gone.  So they did notice it and use it.   But I’d thought there was a chance they’d reattach it.  After all, at ATS’s web site they recommend using cable ties for securing zippers, saying that if they cut them off they’ll replace them.  This implies they have a stock of cable ties or something similar.   Ok, it turns out that by putting just one days’ change of clothes in my carry-on, I can carry all my gadgets (except the tools, miniature screwdrivers and a Leatherman multi-tool) in the carry-on.  This should leave little reason for them to open the checked bag.  All those bundles of wires will also just about guarantee that my carryon will be hand inspected… but at least it will be done in my presence.           — jeh

Response:

> I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things > this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to > open their bag?

Probably because they expect to open 3 out of every 5 bags (per an article I read a few months ago; they may have refined that estimate more recently).  There’s no way to page that many people. I’m waiting to see how outrageous it actually is in practice.  I’m a reasonable person, and willing to suffer my bag being opened perhaps 1 time in a hundred, but not 60% of the time.  I had been checking my bag so I could have my Swiss Army knife at my destination, but now I’m going back to carrying everything on. Charlie

Response:

> I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things > this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to > open their bag?

yeah, sure.  i’d like my bags to actually get on the plane, thank you. have you ever actually been paged at most airports?  could you always understand the messages everywhere?

Response:

>> I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things > this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to > open their bag? >yeah, sure.  i’d like my bags to actually get on the plane, thank >you.

Lots of airports I’ve travelled through will page you if they want to open your bag. My bag has always made it onto the flight. There is some risk that you and your bag might both miss the flight while you wander around the airport trying to find the people who want to open your bag. >have you ever actually been paged at most airports?  could you >always understand the messages everywhere?

I’ve been paged at all sorts of airports, but only once on a security issue. (If I remember rightly it was a business trip from LGW to Lagos, with lots of excess baggage.) I’ve never had much trouble understanding the messages. But this raises an interesting point. My first language is English. In most airports they can dig up an English speaker to make a PA announcement. Someone whose first language was (for example) Cantonese and who spoke no English might have much more trouble in a Western airport. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things >> this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to >> open their bag? >yeah, sure.  i’d like my bags to actually get on the plane, thank >you. > Lots of airports I’ve travelled through will page you if they want to > open your bag. My bag has always made it onto the flight. > There is some risk that you and your bag might both miss the flight > while you wander around the airport trying to find the people who want > to open your bag. >have you ever actually been paged at most airports?  could you >always understand the messages everywhere? > I’ve been paged at all sorts of airports, but only once on a security > issue. (If I remember rightly it was a business trip from LGW to Lagos, > with lots of excess baggage.) I’ve never had much trouble understanding > the messages. > But this raises an interesting point. My first language is English. In > most airports they can dig up an English speaker to make a PA > announcement. Someone whose first language was (for example) Cantonese > and who spoke no English might have much more trouble in a Western > airport. > — > Simon Elliott > http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

According to published reports, the new CTX scanners have a false positive rate of 30%.  There is no way the public address system at any airport could handle an announcement for nearly 1 out of every 3 passengers checking luggage regardless of language issues. Ryan

Response:

Semper Fi! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > OK, I guess I have to ’splain this concept of locking luggage…for > those not quite clear on the concept. > First of all, most of us know that the simple locks sold for luggage > or integrated into them don’t keep out anyone who is intent on getting > in.  That’s a given.  Softside luggage is a no-brainer, anyone with a > knife can cut it wide open in about a second.  Hardside luggage is not > much more difficult to get into – a simple screwdiver should pop the > lock or hinge on most of them.  None of us who lock our luggage have > any realistic expectation that our cheap locks will keep out anyone > who really wants in. > However, the same can be said of most front doors on houses.  Most of > them can be kicked sharply and they’ll open.  I’ve seen great deadbolt > locks set into soft wood doorjambs – the lock doesn’t break, the > doorjamb does.  Even for those who have decent doors, locks, and etc, > a window is pretty easy to break.  In other words, what the police > have said for years is true – most houses can be broken into by a > determined burglar. > Cars can also be broken into easily – windows everywhere, and even the > most modern anti-theft devices rarely stymie professional car thieves > who really want your wheels. > Why bother locking anything?  I grew up in rural Illinois in the > 1960’s.  One of the houses we lived in had an old skeleton-style lock > – the key was missing.  We never locked the front door.  If we went on > vacation, our neighbors would keep an eye on things.  We never had a > problem. > But apparenly most people don’t realize that locks are not primarily > to keep anyone out of anything.  They are there to deter, and they do > so fairly admirably.  I used to work in law enforcement – any cop will > tell you that most crooks are stupid and lazy.  They will walk down > the street trying car doors until one opens.  They will go from door > to door shaking door knobs on houses and apartments until one opens. > They will open unlocked bags and ignore locked ones, even with those > stupid worthless cheap-ass locks we put on ‘em. > There is an old saying, "Locks keep honest people honest," and there > is some truth in that.  I could get all psychological on you and start > quoting risk/reward ratios and so on, but it is self-evident – crooks > tend to avoid doing any actual work for most casual thievery – and > most theft is both opportunistic and casual. > I lock my car.  I lock my apartment (got an alarm, too).  I also lock > my checked bag at the airport.  If the TSA wants in, they can break > the lock with my compliments.  I will buy another lock and put it on > for the next flight.  I will NOT leave my bag unlocked – they can kiss > my rosy red ass before I will do that. > If my lock is cut, I will know that someone was in my bag.  If > something is missing, I have a good suspicion who did it.  If I leave > my bag unlocked, I do not know if anyone has been in it.  If something > is missing, who knows at what point someone rifled through it? > I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.  However, my opinion is > that not locking your bag is asking for trouble, exactly like not > locking your car door or your home. > I flew from ABQ-PHX-LAX today.  I locked my checked bag, over the > objections of the America West desk agent.  She gave me a form when I > refused to remove the lock from my bag: > ***QUOTE*** > Notification to Passengers Requesting the Unlocking of Checked Baggage > For your security, the Transportation Security Administration is > screening all checked baggage.  Unlocked bags can be examined quickly. >  Locked bags will be opened if necessary, then resealed.  That process > could result in delay or damage. > You can find further information on the TSA website: > www.TSATravelTips.us > ***END QUOTE*** > Well, that pretty much sounds like the typical TSA bully-boy > semi-threat to me.  The implied threat is that if you don’t lock your > bag, they’ll damage it or delay it.  Their goal is to intimidate > people into going along with their program.  Well, they can get > stuffed.  Not happening.  Not this jarhead.  Not now, not ever > (voluntarily). > By the way, my bag was not opened, and arrived intact and on time at > LAX this evening, rubber chicken and all. > I hope that’s the last I have to say about luggage locks. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Response:

>    I am waiting for them to announce that we all have to >    leave our cars > unlocked at the airport so they can get in the trunks if one > of their bomb sniffing dogs smells something suspicious.

They probably already under current air travel security rules and a number of precedents – cases already decided by the courts) have the right to force open your trunk if a drug or explosives sniffing dog alerts on your car in an airport parking lot, just as they may open your bag inside the airport.  And unlike "Slim Jims" by which almost any car door may be opened without damage, even with unlocked doors, many car trunks cannot be opened without a prybar and damage. Locally, one of the Police Departments has been doing "random" drug dog sniffing in the parking lot of a large multi-screen theater, then waiting for the owners of the suspicious cars to return before "asking politely" to search.  Of course, if one says "No", the dog’s alert apparently provides legal justification for obtaining a search warrant. A decade ago, back when she was in high school, my daughter always wanted to drive to scool the truck I used for hunting.   The school district had it’s own "police force" and a "drug dog" which also sniffed alerted to gunpowder residue/gun oil and the like with which my truck was permeated.  She always looked forward to getting to skip class, called out while the searched the truck.  While cops are not all "dumb", it amazed me that it took’em four or five searches before they figured out that the old truck was simply not worth the time and effort.  The principal called me twice to tell me to not let her drive the truck to school.  I told him that unless he was prepared to purchase and insure a car for my daughter or to send a special vehicle to pick her up and return her home each day, I wasn’t about to relinqish my right to provide her with a legally registered/inspected vehicle of my choice.  Finally, after a number of her friends began to drive their dads’ pickups and SUVs used for hunting to school, the situation became ridiculous, daily tales of a crazed hound galloping about alerting on whole rows, and an old acquaintance serving on the school board convinced fellow board members and the administration that while sniffing for drugs might work, this wasa part of the world where sniffing for guns was likely to result in dozens of daily false positives.  The dog went away to more fertile parking lots. TMO

Response:

[snip] > But apparenly most people don’t realize that locks are not primarily > to keep anyone out of anything.  They are there to deter, and they do > so fairly admirably.  I used to work in law enforcement – any cop will > tell you that most crooks are stupid and lazy.  They will walk down > the street trying car doors until one opens.  They will go from door > to door shaking door knobs on houses and apartments until one opens. > They will open unlocked bags and ignore locked ones, even with those > stupid worthless cheap-ass locks we put on ‘em.

[snip]    I lock my luggage primarily to keep it from popping open and dumping all the contents on the ground when one of those luggage handlers/gorrillas throws it.  I’m contemplating getting one of those straps to go around the whole thing.  They can just slide it off and back on.      I am waiting for them to announce that we all have to leave our cars unlocked at the airport so they can get in the trunks if one of their bomb sniffing dogs smells something suspicious.

Response:

>I lock my car.  I lock my apartment (got an alarm, too).  I also lock >my checked bag at the airport.  If the TSA wants in, they can break >the lock with my compliments.  I will buy another lock and put it on >for the next flight.  I will NOT leave my bag unlocked – they can kiss >my rosy red ass before I will do that.

I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to open their bag? Advantages: 1/ Passengers get to lock and unlock their own bags. 2/ Security don’t need to look for the passenger if they    want to talk to them about what was found in their bag. 3/ It eliminates the possibility of someone targeting the    people checking the bags. >If my lock is cut, I will know that someone was in my bag.  If >something is missing, I have a good suspicion who did it.  If I leave >my bag unlocked, I do not know if anyone has been in it.  If something >is missing, who knows at what point someone rifled through it?

Especially useful as many airlines want to be notified of theft from baggage at the point of arrival. If you lock or secure your bags, it becomes obvious if something has gone as soon as take your bags from the conveyor. Fortunately the only thing my wife and I have ever lost is a fairly cheap waterproof coat. Unfortunately, the airline (Iberia) really didn’t want to know as we didn’t discover the loss until unpacking our bags an hour after leaving the airport. I started securing my baggage as a result of this incident. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

> I still don’t understand why security at US airports want to do things > this way. Why don’t they page the bag owner over the PA and ask them to > open their bag?

I like the system in Hamburg.  Every bank of check-in counters has one or two large baggage x-ray machines in front of them.  Every single bag that is to be checked goes through them–you can crane your neck and look at the contents of your bag, as does the person who does the screening, who also zooms in for a closer look if at particular objects.  If there is anything that can’t be explained, you walk four feet to a counter and another agent opens the bag with you and you examine the contents together.  Then they put a yellow tag on them and you check them onto the plane.  Carry-on bags are not screened there, but at the entrance to the concourses.

Response:

> Why bother locking anything?  I grew up in rural Illinois in the > 1960’s.  One of the houses we lived in had an old skeleton-style lock > – the key was missing.  We never locked the front door.  If we went on > vacation, our neighbors would keep an eye on things.  We never had a > problem.

I grew up in Ireland in the 80’s and 90’s.  We never locked our doors (front or back) and still don’t.  We never have any problems. Johnny

Response:

OK, I guess I have to ’splain this concept of locking luggage…for those not quite clear on the concept. First of all, most of us know that the simple locks sold for luggage or integrated into them don’t keep out anyone who is intent on getting in.  That’s a given.  Softside luggage is a no-brainer, anyone with a knife can cut it wide open in about a second.  Hardside luggage is not much more difficult to get into – a simple screwdiver should pop the lock or hinge on most of them.  None of us who lock our luggage have any realistic expectation that our cheap locks will keep out anyone who really wants in. However, the same can be said of most front doors on houses.  Most of them can be kicked sharply and they’ll open.  I’ve seen great deadbolt locks set into soft wood doorjambs – the lock doesn’t break, the doorjamb does.  Even for those who have decent doors, locks, and etc, a window is pretty easy to break.  In other words, what the police have said for years is true – most houses can be broken into by a determined burglar. Cars can also be broken into easily – windows everywhere, and even the most modern anti-theft devices rarely stymie professional car thieves who really want your wheels. Why bother locking anything?  I grew up in rural Illinois in the 1960’s.  One of the houses we lived in had an old skeleton-style lock – the key was missing.  We never locked the front door.  If we went on vacation, our neighbors would keep an eye on things.  We never had a problem. But apparenly most people don’t realize that locks are not primarily to keep anyone out of anything.  They are there to deter, and they do so fairly admirably.  I used to work in law enforcement – any cop will tell you that most crooks are stupid and lazy.  They will walk down the street trying car doors until one opens.  They will go from door to door shaking door knobs on houses and apartments until one opens. They will open unlocked bags and ignore locked ones, even with those stupid worthless cheap-ass locks we put on ‘em. There is an old saying, "Locks keep honest people honest," and there is some truth in that.  I could get all psychological on you and start quoting risk/reward ratios and so on, but it is self-evident – crooks tend to avoid doing any actual work for most casual thievery – and most theft is both opportunistic and casual. I lock my car.  I lock my apartment (got an alarm, too).  I also lock my checked bag at the airport.  If the TSA wants in, they can break the lock with my compliments.  I will buy another lock and put it on for the next flight.  I will NOT leave my bag unlocked – they can kiss my rosy red ass before I will do that. If my lock is cut, I will know that someone was in my bag.  If something is missing, I have a good suspicion who did it.  If I leave my bag unlocked, I do not know if anyone has been in it.  If something is missing, who knows at what point someone rifled through it? I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.  However, my opinion is that not locking your bag is asking for trouble, exactly like not locking your car door or your home. I flew from ABQ-PHX-LAX today.  I locked my checked bag, over the objections of the America West desk agent.  She gave me a form when I refused to remove the lock from my bag: ***QUOTE*** Notification to Passengers Requesting the Unlocking of Checked Baggage For your security, the Transportation Security Administration is screening all checked baggage.  Unlocked bags can be examined quickly.  Locked bags will be opened if necessary, then resealed.  That process could result in delay or damage. You can find further information on the TSA website: www.TSATravelTips.us ***END QUOTE*** Well, that pretty much sounds like the typical TSA bully-boy semi-threat to me.  The implied threat is that if you don’t lock your bag, they’ll damage it or delay it.  Their goal is to intimidate people into going along with their program.  Well, they can get stuffed.  Not happening.  Not this jarhead.  Not now, not ever (voluntarily). By the way, my bag was not opened, and arrived intact and on time at LAX this evening, rubber chicken and all. I hope that’s the last I have to say about luggage locks. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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