Air Travel

Question:

> The point was entirely realistic. The fact that the Tories are dropping > the levels of income tax in order to generate a "feelgood factor" for the > next election is hardly a state secret. In fact, one of the real > revelations to me is how unashamed they are about it, and how all the > media etc. take this strategy for granted. Even some visiting Brazilian > colleagues were pretty astounded by the sheer brazenness of it.

I agree with Roger Chung-Wee that this is not a political forum. One can however agree with Wolfgang Wuster that the British media – who are controlled by a very small vested interest minority – can voice their views and mould peoples opinions, through the columns of their newspapers. This practice will continue until the Newspapers themselves are included in an ammended version of The Representation of The People Act. The fact that they are excluded at present is undemocratic. That s my last word on the subject, lets get back to rec.travel.air.! — Edinburgh and Aberdeen Airports are Scotland’s fastest growing.        Edinburgh at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry    Aberdeen at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry/abz.html

Response:

> One thing this has proved is that Kenneth Clarke has suddenly awoken > lots of travel agents from their slumber, to discover politics.  After > all, we travel agents have always been a persecuted minority…. The > only surprise is that it has taken this long before we have been > directly attacked by government…….  Sorry, just a little paranoia > setting in here…..

And not without good reason I might add…What Clarke never announced on budget day was that travel insurance bought as part of a package will attract VAT at 17.5%! This was previously taxed at 2% so you can well justify your paranoia. You can of course sell the insurance separately and it will only attract tax of 4%. This will really hit the High Street giants who rely on package/insurance deals to boost profits. The independents are more responsible and will explain the pitfalls. — Edinburgh and Aberdeen Airports are Scotland’s fastest growing.        Edinburgh at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry    Aberdeen at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry/abz.html

Response:

>Easyjet 990-292-929 (who will accept bookings from abroad) fly to >Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Barcelona, Nice, Amsterdam, Inverness.

Apologies. The above no. is UK only. From outside the UK, dial the international code for the UK + 1582 445566. — Ian

Response:

> A more sensible debating point is what should be done with the extra > revenue, eg should some of it go towards upgrading airports rather > than the whole amount disappearing into the Treasury’s coffers.  Or, > why is there a departure tax for those who fly but not for those who > travel by rail, ferry, coach, etc.  I do think that air passengers are > discriminated against.

You have a very good point there.! But then it would be an unpopular tax for the masses. Perhaps they consider air travellers as ‘friendly’ voters, or perhaps there is not enough of the ‘unfriendly’ ones yet.? — Edinburgh and Aberdeen Airports are Scotland’s fastest growing.        Edinburgh at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry    Aberdeen at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry/abz.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I find this passenger tax very unfair to passengers travelling short >distances. >> If they must have this tax it should be levied at say 5% of the total fare. >> It,s not an airport improvement tax, it goes straight to the British >treasury >> and is a tax for tax sake. >Just keep thinking how this helped nice Mr. Clarke cut your income tax by >4% to buy the next election, and keep voting Tory. There’s a good chap! >Wolfgang Wuster >"The only good Tory is a lavatory" >[old but pertinent] >Do us a favour: keep your political views to yourself and try and be >realistic.  There is no evidence whatsover that, should the Labour >Party form the next government, the higher airport departure taxes >will be repealed.  History has shown that new, incoming governments >hang onto existing taxes – even the ones which they attacked when in >opposition. >A more sensible debating point is what should be done with the extra >revenue, eg should some of it go towards upgrading airports rather >than the whole amount disappearing into the Treasury’s coffers.  

This would be somewhat difficult since most of the UK’s airports have already been privatised by the same Tory Government….  The impression that I got from Clarke’s Budget speech was that he thinks that Business Travel has massively increased recently, so businesses can afford to pay a bit more, conveniently forgetting about the millions of holiday flights which the British public take every year.  The whole direction of the budget was aimed at a perceived reduction in taxes for private individuals (ie.voters) and increased taxes on businesses and the corporate sector who supposedly control fewer votes. >Or, >why is there a departure tax for those who fly but not for those who >travel by rail, ferry, coach, etc.  I do think that air passengers are >discriminated against.

True.  This is all part of trying to be seen to protect the environment by taxing the more polluting form of transport.  This would ring true, if the policy were more consistent.  For instance, road tax for HGVs has once gain been frozen, which does nothing to reduce traffic and put more freight on the railways. >– >Concord World Travel, 278 Wightman Road, London N8 0LX >Tel: +44(0)181-342 8400  Fax: +44(0)181-348 0822 >Long-haul travel organiser for the independent traveller >Member, UK Chapter of the Caribbean Tourism Organisation >Holder of a Fully Bonded CAA Licence (ATOL number 3735)

One thing this has proved is that Kenneth Clarke has suddenly awoken lots of travel agents from their slumber, to discover politics.  After all, we travel agents have always been a persecuted minority…. The only surprise is that it has taken this long before we have been directly attacked by government…….  Sorry, just a little paranoia setting in here….. Fax: +44 161 627 0011                          *     -(@)-(@)-      * 14 Copsterhill Road, Oldham OL8 1QB, England   *         (          * For all your travel and holiday requirements   *       ___/        * From the UK to the World, try:                 *                    * Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I find this passenger tax very unfair to passengers travelling short distances. >> If they must have this tax it should be levied at say 5% of the total fare. >> It,s not an airport improvement tax, it goes straight to the British treasury >> and is a tax for tax sake. >Just keep thinking how this helped nice Mr. Clarke cut your income tax by >4% to buy the next election, and keep voting Tory. There’s a good chap! >Wolfgang Wuster >"The only good Tory is a lavatory" >[old but pertinent] > Do us a favour: keep your political views to yourself

Ever heard of freedom of speech? > and try and be realistic.

The point was entirely realistic. The fact that the Tories are dropping the levels of income tax in order to generate a "feelgood factor" for the next election is hardly a state secret. In fact, one of the real revelations to me is how unashamed they are about it, and how all the media etc. take this strategy for granted. Even some visiting Brazilian colleagues were pretty astounded by the sheer brazenness of it. Of course, having dropped income tax, they now have to make up for lost revenue with various forms of indirect taxation, such as VAT, departure tax, etc. The great advantage of indirect taxes is that, unlike income tax, people tend not to be aware of just how much they are paying extra, as sales taxes usually do not feature separately on till receipts etc. > There is no evidence whatsover that, should the Labour > Party form the next government, the higher airport departure taxes > will be repealed.  History has shown that new, incoming governments > hang onto existing taxes – even the ones which they attacked when in > opposition.

I never said that they would. I merely pointed out the cynicism of govt. policy. > A more sensible debating point is what should be done with the extra > revenue, eg should some of it go towards upgrading airports rather > than the whole amount disappearing into the Treasury’s coffers.

You mean the National Debt? Seriously, it would be a sensible debating point, but also a pretty futile one. It is obvious that this tax is just a revenue-earning exercise, and not a task-specific tax. The UK tax system has never ben particularly geared towards raising specific taxes for specific purposes. Whether such a system would be desirable would be an interesting subject for debate. > Or, > why is there a departure tax for those who fly but not for those who > travel by rail, ferry, coach, etc.  I do think that air passengers are > discriminated against.

No quarrel with that. — Wolfgang Wuster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor, UK Thought for the day: If you see a light at the end of the tunnel, it is probably a train coming your way.

Response:

> I find this passenger tax very unfair to passengers travelling short distances. > If they must have this tax it should be levied at say 5% of the total fare. > It,s not an airport improvement tax, it goes straight to the British treasury > and is a tax for tax sake.

Just keep thinking how this helped nice Mr. Clarke cut your income tax by 4% to buy the next election, and keep voting Tory. There’s a good chap! Wolfgang Wuster "The only good Tory is a lavatory" [old but pertinent]

Response:

>> I find this passenger tax very unfair to passengers travelling short distances. > If they must have this tax it should be levied at say 5% of the total fare. > It,s not an airport improvement tax, it goes straight to the British treasury > and is a tax for tax sake. >Just keep thinking how this helped nice Mr. Clarke cut your income tax by >4% to buy the next election, and keep voting Tory. There’s a good chap! >Wolfgang Wuster >"The only good Tory is a lavatory" >[old but pertinent]

Do us a favour: keep your political views to yourself and try and be realistic.  There is no evidence whatsover that, should the Labour Party form the next government, the higher airport departure taxes will be repealed.  History has shown that new, incoming governments hang onto existing taxes – even the ones which they attacked when in opposition. A more sensible debating point is what should be done with the extra revenue, eg should some of it go towards upgrading airports rather than the whole amount disappearing into the Treasury’s coffers.  Or, why is there a departure tax for those who fly but not for those who travel by rail, ferry, coach, etc.  I do think that air passengers are discriminated against. — Concord World Travel, 278 Wightman Road, London N8 0LX Tel: +44(0)181-342 8400  Fax: +44(0)181-348 0822 Long-haul travel organiser for the independent traveller Member, UK Chapter of the Caribbean Tourism Organisation Holder of a Fully Bonded CAA Licence (ATOL number 3735)

Response:

>>Does anyone have information about recently started airlines, Easy jet >and Debonair?

Easyjet flies from London to Edinburgh, Amsterdam, Nice and Barcelona for very low prices. No thrills no frills. Bring your own sandwich. Major airlines have cut down their prices on the same routes (especially London Amsterdam: KLM, BA, AirUK, Transavia, British Midland) but have restrictions. Easyjet does not — Joed Elich – Samsom BedrijfsInformatie http://www.sbi.nl/congresnet fax +31 172 475933 "with two feet on the floor you never get far"

Response:

> Easyjet flies from London to Edinburgh, Amsterdam, Nice and Barcelona for > very low prices. No thrills no frills. Bring your own sandwich. Major > airlines have cut down their prices on the same routes (especially London > Amsterdam: KLM, BA, AirUK, Transavia, British Midland) but have > restrictions. Easyjet does not

The really bad restriction is a Saturday night stay. Mind you the fares of Easyjet and other budget airlines are subject to a 5ukp passenger tax each way. This will be increased in one year,s time to 10ukp under new government budget proposals. The passenger tax also applies to other airlines! I find this passenger tax very unfair to passengers travelling short distances. If they must have this tax it should be levied at say 5% of the total fare. It,s not an airport improvement tax, it goes straight to the British treasury and is a tax for tax sake. — Edinburgh and Aberdeen Airports are Scotland’s fastest growing.        Edinburgh at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry    Aberdeen at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/jcurry/abz.html

Response:

> >Does anyone have information about recently started airlines, Easy jet >and Debonair? > I think that Debonair has a Rom-Copenaghen flight every day. (from > Ciampino Airport). > Any news on price. > Bye > Roberto

The November-December issue of Airways Magazine has a nice article on each of these carriers. Jeff

Response:

>>Does anyone have information about recently started airlines, Easy jet >and Debonair? >I think that Debonair has a Rom-Copenaghen flight every day. (from >Ciampino Airport). >Any news on price. >Bye >Roberto

Debonair fly from London to Newcastle, Copenhagen, Munich, Duesseldorf/Moenchengladbach, Rome, Barcelona and Madrid. From Munich they fly to London, Duesseldorf/Moenchengladbach, Copenhagen, Barcelona and Rome. From Barcelona, they have direct connections to Rome, Madrid, Munich and London. By combining all these you can fly from e.g. Copenhagen to Rome via Munich. Prices from Copenhagen are (according to advertisements): (1 Danish krone is about 0.26 DEM or a bit more than 10 p (GB)) CPH-Munich: 860 kr. CPH-Duesseldorf (via London): 645 kr. CPH-London: 485 kr CPH-Newcastle (via London): 800 kr. CPH-Rome (via Munich): 920 kr. CPH-Madrid (via London): 920 kr. CPH-Barcelona (via Munich or London): 920 kr. On the three last routes they compete directly with Virgin Express who fly from Copenhagen via Brussels for 847 normal price, with recent sales going as low as 694. Both companies seem to have a "the sooner you book, the lower your fare"-policy. Telephone numbers in Denmark are Debon: +45 – 33.32.00.23 Virgin Express: +45 – 800.1.53.88 All prices quoted are one way and exclude tax. Ciao Lars

Response:

>Does anyone have information about recently started airlines, Easy jet >and Debonair? >How do they cost from UK to other European destinations? >How to book their flights? Can I book from the US? >Thanks in advance.

Debonair 500-146-200 (don’t know if they accept bookings abroad) fly to Newcastle, Dussoldorf, Copenhagen, Munich, Rome, Barcelona and Madrid. Easyjet 990-292-929 (who will accept bookings from abroad) fly to Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Barcelona, Nice, Amsterdam, Inverness. — Ian

Response:

>Does anyone have information about recently started airlines, Easy jet >and Debonair?

Both these airlines operate from Luton airport (7 miles from where I live). Luton is sometimes (wrongly in my opinion) called London (Luton) airport. 2 of easyjets planes apparently were Britannia airways planes which spent some time in Europe with another unknown airline (after being refiitted) and have now come back to Luton with easyjet. Debonair are newer and though they are based in Luton airport I don’t know anything else about them. >How do they cost from UK to other European destinations?

They are very cheap but their flights must be booked months in advance to get the cheapest fairs. It seems that Luton to a european city might have seats at