Air Travel

Question:

> Actually, I have told you that I don’t have a vested interest in either side > (AC or CP). However, when I asked you what your interest in supporting CP > over AC was, you never answered.

I believe my post which you disliked so much should be enough for most individuals to figure out why I support CP. > Milind. > BTW: Yes I do work at BNR, and am capable of "intelligent discussion". Can the > same be said of those attending "Last Chance U."? Actually, I adjust my > communications level to suit my adversary.

Actually I doubt you work at BNR even though that’s what your email suggests.  As I’m sure you know (at least I hope) BNR no longer exists, you actually work for NORTEL.  (Wow, you think I guy would know where he works!) It appears so far from our little encounter that people attending Carleton are quite capable of intelligent discussion.  You have yet to dispense with the rhetoric and offer some sort of concrete evidence that information in my original post was inaccurate or that my opinions are some how misguided.   I will be waiting for your e-mail, which hopefully will contain less rhetoric and more facts.  Oh and please increase your communications level because your messages are often breaking up and incoherent. Mike  

Response:

[snip] |> > You are right this is a public forum which means I have the right to get |> > on a soap box or any other platform and spew my guts out no matter how |> > stupid you think I am.  If your sick of me then don’t read my posts but |> > don’t you dare tell me to hush up when you don’t like what you read.   |> |> > If you don’t like what I’m saying then intellegently respond to my comments |> > with your opinion on the subject.  You are capable of intellegent |> > discussion are you not? Considering you work at The Big Nerd Ranch I would |> > think so. Or are you only capable of personal insults and attacks. Maybe |> > you don’t have any arguements to make against mine and are just upset that |> > what I’m saying is true. |> |> > I will bash AC any time I feel like it and if you can prove any of my |> > statements incorrect then please do.  If you can’t prove what I’m saying |> > is wrong then maybe what I am saying has some foundation. |> |> > If my comments are not objective enough for you then why don’t you start |> > an objective discussion in which we can dispense with the personal insults |> > and engage in a debate which might prove more to your wishes. |> |> > One might ask what your bias is in this.  Everyone knows my bias, what’s |> > yours? |> |> > Mike |> |> |> I’m waiting for your intellegent response Milind.  It’s time to put your |> money were your mouth is. |> |> Or maybe you cannot refute any of my statements.  Is that it? |> |> Mike Actually, Mike, the reason for the delay is that I work for a living, and can’t waste my time reading this stuff every day. Well, to use your argument, I got on my soap-box and spilled my guts. What is my bias in "all of this"? I don’t have one. I fly both airlines with the sole preference being which one matches my schedule at the given opportunity. I don’t have an objection with anyone relaying information, both positive or negative, about an issue, but to drone on continuously about a topic in a biased nature serves no purpose. Actually, I have told you that I don’t have a vested interest in either side (AC or CP). However, when I asked you what your interest in supporting CP over AC was, you never answered. If you would like to take this off-line to e-mail let me know. Milind. BTW: Yes I do work at BNR, and am capable of "intelligent discussion". Can the same be said of those attending "Last Chance U."? Actually, I adjust my communications level to suit my adversary. OBD: These are my opinions, and not neccessarily those of my employer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > Insidious, biased drivel delted. > |> Mike > |> > Oh, get down off your soap box and pipe down Mike. You have a > skewed view on airline matters. Air Canada is evil, all else > is irrevelent. Well, I for one am sick of these biased diatribes > that you put forth to these public forums. If you can’t be > objective, or atleaset give AC credit for any accomplishments (if > they are warrented) they hush. Why do you feel that YOU have to > bash AC at any opportunity? > You are right this is a public forum which means I have the right to get > on a soap box or any other platform and spew my guts out no matter how > stupid you think I am.  If your sick of me then don’t read my posts but > don’t you dare tell me to hush up when you don’t like what you read.   > If you don’t like what I’m saying then intellegently respond to my comments > with your opinion on the subject.  You are capable of intellegent > discussion are you not? Considering you work at The Big Nerd Ranch I would > think so. Or are you only capable of personal insults and attacks. Maybe > you don’t have any arguements to make against mine and are just upset that > what I’m saying is true. > I will bash AC any time I feel like it and if you can prove any of my > statements incorrect then please do.  If you can’t prove what I’m saying > is wrong then maybe what I am saying has some foundation. > If my comments are not objective enough for you then why don’t you start > an objective discussion in which we can dispense with the personal insults > and engage in a debate which might prove more to your wishes. > One might ask what your bias is in this.  Everyone knows my bias, what’s > yours? > Mike

I’m waiting for your intellegent response Milind.  It’s time to put your money were your mouth is. Or maybe you cannot refute any of my statements.  Is that it? Mike

Response:

[snip] Insidious, biased drivel delted. |> Mike |> Oh, get down off your soap box and pipe down Mike. You have a skewed view on airline matters. Air Canada is evil, all else is irrevelent. Well, I for one am sick of these biased diatribes that you put forth to these public forums. If you can’t be objective, or atleaset give AC credit for any accomplishments (if they are warrented) they hush. Why do you feel that YOU have to bash AC at any opportunity? Milind.

Response:

> [snip] > Insidious, biased drivel delted. > |> Mike > |> > Oh, get down off your soap box and pipe down Mike. You have a > skewed view on airline matters. Air Canada is evil, all else > is irrevelent. Well, I for one am sick of these biased diatribes > that you put forth to these public forums. If you can’t be > objective, or atleaset give AC credit for any accomplishments (if > they are warrented) they hush. Why do you feel that YOU have to > bash AC at any opportunity?

You are right this is a public forum which means I have the right to get on a soap box or any other platform and spew my guts out no matter how stupid you think I am.  If your sick of me then don’t read my posts but don’t you dare tell me to hush up when you don’t like what you read.   If you don’t like what I’m saying then intellegently respond to my comments with your opinion on the subject.  You are capable of intellegent discussion are you not? Considering you work at The Big Nerd Ranch I would think so. Or are you only capable of personal insults and attacks. Maybe you don’t have any arguements to make against mine and are just upset that what I’m saying is true. I will bash AC any time I feel like it and if you can prove any of my statements incorrect then please do.  If you can’t prove what I’m saying is wrong then maybe what I am saying has some foundation. If my comments are not objective enough for you then why don’t you start an objective discussion in which we can dispense with the personal insults and engage in a debate which might prove more to your wishes. One might ask what your bias is in this.  Everyone knows my bias, what’s yours? Mike

Response:

> Ken, despite some of the biased posting here (notably those pushing > Canadian) the air service in Canada is dominated by two main carriers, > Air Canada and Canadian Airlines and their associated regionals.  You > will find people making up all kinds of excuses for one or the other > based on one or two favourable or poor experiences.  It’s kind of like > the Coke vs Pepsi battle….there’s no real difference except personal > perception.  Both airlines will get you wherever you want to go in > Canada.  I suppose, if you want to choose, frequent flyer bonuses are as > good a choice as any.  Canadian is affiliated with American Airlines, > while Air Canada has links with Continental and United, so you may as > well travel with whoever ties in with your own program.  Better still, > flip a coin. > Don

To a large extent Don is correct but many people in Canada unlike Don have taken the time to understand the political fighting that has gone on in our industry.  For example Jean Francois Mezi believes that Canadian Airlines is a better airline and offers better service but now is angry about their pulling out of Montreal, so he is forced to fly Air Canada.  The interesting thing is though if you ask JF why he likes Canadian more it’s not just because he likes the service or what not it is political reasons.  JF is not alone,  most die hard Canadian Airlines customers feel the same way.  What are the politcial reasons you ask? Air Canada is a former Crown corporation.  Air Canada was a fat bloated inefficient company which was by government decree given the right to dominate Canada’s skies for over 50 years.  Private companies like Canadian Pacific, Pacific Western and Wardair were always forced to play second fiddle to this behemoth of government do gooders.  Air Canada was given the choice of what routes to serve and then threw the scraps to the other airlines. When other airlines wanted to increase service or offer new products it was passed by Air Canada’s board to make sure it would not have a negative impact on Air Canada.  Can you imagine.  NOt only do you pay taxes to support your competitor, your competitor gets to make the final decision on your corporate direction! Then the biggest slap in the face was privatization.  Air Canada made $750 million off the stock offering and the tax payer did not see one red cent.  50 years of government support and we got nothing out of the sale. What we got was on the operations side a company in dire straights.  Air Canada lost huge amounts of money after privatization as Hollis Harris tried to clean up the mess.   However this new private company with $750 million in cash and several billions of dollars worth of planes 100% owned by them, (thanks to their government years) which were completely unsecured (so as to be liquid assets worth several billion more in lines of credit or cash) had a very strong cash or ability to get cash position.  What did they do with this new money?  They promptly went out and attempted to put all of their private competitors out of business.  First it was Wardair, and if you wish to find out about many of the dirty under handed tricks that were played on Wardair in the attempt to put them out of business you should read Max’s book.  However before Wardair went broke Canadian Airlines came and purchased it.  Not only did Canadian Airlines save some job’s but also all of Wardair’s investors money, but Canadian was bashed in the media as a predator when in fact Canadian was the savoir.  Then of course we all know the well documented battle between Canadian and Air Canada.  Canadian with its $200 million line of credit and Air Canada with its $1 billion line of credit and access to at least another $2 billion.  Of course Air Canada almost won but AMR stepped in to save competition in Canada. So its not as simple as who has the best coffee.  Its about ethics and how a large corporation should conduct itself.  If you believe in bully tactics and fat government companies and dirty underhanded tricks then fly Air Canada.  If you believe in the entreprenurial spirit and old fasion pride in your company (as Canadian employees have demonstrated again and again) then fly Canadian.  You see Don it is not always as easy as who has the nicest paint job. Mike

Response:

I’ll be going to Canada in a couple of weeks on business.  I’ve never traveled much in that country so I’d be interested in your advice as to which airline to take. I’ll be travelling to all the major cities and I’d like to stay with one airline, if that’s possible. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Ken

Response:

>> I’ll be going to Canada in a couple of weeks on business.  I’ve never traveled > much in that country so I’d be interested in your advice as to which airline > to take.

It depends on which is your favorite airline in the USA. If it is CO or UA, then take Air Canada since you’ll be getting frequent flyer points. If it is AA, then take CP to get your points. If you are neutral and like good service and smaller airline (more personal) choose Canadian. If newer planes and more frequency is a must then choose AC.

Response:

writes: >I’ll be going to Canada in a couple of weeks on business. I’ve never traveled  >much in that country so I’d be interested in your advice as to which airline  >to take. >I’ll be travelling to all the major cities and I’d like to stay with one >airline, if that’s possible. >Any help would be much appreciated. >Thanks >Ken

***** Keep in mind that if you use Air Canada you get UAL mileage points. Pete. — I have the last remaining stock of Dyna-Bees left in the world. Made in the ’70’s, but brand new in the box. If you know what they are, you’ll know that what they’re worth as a collector’s item, or for practical use. My price UK