Air Travel

Question:

> Allowing customers to buy its travel services online and directly from > the airlines has slashed Reno Air’s distribution costs by 75 percent, > according to figures pulled together by the carrier, which recently > enlarged its in-house reservations system in Las Vegas.  On an average > $60 fare, tickets booked online cost only $2.50 to process, compare > with $10 for tickets booked through an external online provider. > Electronic tickets cost only 10 cents.  But for bookings made through > travel agents, Reno Air said, it pays a 10 percent commission – $6 > on a typical $60 fare – plus $3 fee to CRS and $1 in processing costs, > for a total processing tab of a whopping 16.7 percent.

Interesting to note though, is that the CRSs are actually owned by the airlines, and CRS contracts are generally formulated with booking quotas, with severe penalties if they are not met.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> >I do object to paying a 15 percent "gratuity" to waiters. I think too >many people have lost sight of what this is for. It is a reward for good >service, not an obligation. And, if I get poor service at places where >the 15% is automatic, you can bet I will refuse to pay it. >I had extremely poor service at a Marriott Hotel restaurant once and did >not tip. Would you believe the waitress actually called by room to find >out why.  One call to management and the whole meal was removed from my >bill. The waitress actually expected to be tipped for poor service, >because everyone did it. > Sorry, this is not about air travel — but the 15% (or whatever — many > tip more) is not a ‘reward for good service’ — it’s part of their > *salary*. Yes, their official salary is very low, often lower than the > minimum wage, which is legal precisely because the tips are taken to > be part of their *regular* income. I wish we had a more civilized > system as so much of the world does where we paid more for the meal > and the restaurant owner paid their full salary and tips were a thing > of the past… but we don’t.

Fortunately, here in California it is illegal to count tips as part of an employees salary.  It used to be that the owner of a restaurant could count tip-income as part of what he (the owner) was required to pay as mininum wage.  This was outlawed about 20 years ago.   Anyway, like you said  -  off topic! — Bob Parsons Remember, keep smiling….that way they’ll never know what you’re up to!

Response:

<snip> >I do object to paying a 15 percent "gratuity" to waiters. I think too >many people have lost sight of what this is for. It is a reward for good >service, not an obligation. And, if I get poor service at places where >the 15% is automatic, you can bet I will refuse to pay it. >I had extremely poor service at a Marriott Hotel restaurant once and did >not tip. Would you believe the waitress actually called by room to find >out why.  One call to management and the whole meal was removed from my >bill. The waitress actually expected to be tipped for poor service, >because everyone did it.

Sorry, this is not about air travel — but the 15% (or whatever — many tip more) is not a ‘reward for good service’ — it’s part of their *salary*. Yes, their official salary is very low, often lower than the minimum wage, which is legal precisely because the tips are taken to be part of their *regular* income. I wish we had a more civilized system as so much of the world does where we paid more for the meal and the restaurant owner paid their full salary and tips were a thing of the past… but we don’t.

Response:

>……let’ s get this straight..you have no problem paying a service fee >to write checks for YOUR money…..you have no problem having to pay >"Shipping and handling" charges….you have to problem using an ATM >MACHINE…not even a person…and paying a service fee…again…for your >money….leaving an industry average 15% gratutity to a >waiter/waitress…and in some places having it already included in your >bill….naw…you don’t complain…BUT…you object to paying a small >service fee to have someone take the time to research fares on the various >airlines…the connections…the best available times…lowest

You can get mad about it, but it doesn’t change things. People will take the cheaper alternative if it is just as good. If one ATM charges a fee and another doesn’t, we’ll go to the latter. If you can’t add value, no one will pay. And most travel agents are just a waste of time, just as most dealings with human ‘helpers’ are a waste of time (I prefer an ATM to a teller, LLBean to shopping at a store…)

Response:

<snip> >Do you know an unbiased, no charge, online service?  One that includes >Southwest and other discount carriers?  One that delivers tickets, the same >day, if required, to my office at no additional charge?  (I have been >bounced by an airline with no compensation offered with a valid ticket, and >would have never gotten anything without that ticket as a record, don’t tell >me how electronic ticketing is sufficient!) >If so, let me know where to find this on the web, and I will consider that >travel agents have gone the way of the buggy whip.

I’ve never had reason to look for Southwest (being in the northeast and all ) and I’ve never needed tickets delivered the same day, much less for free. But I’ve also never bought tickets from an online service — I use them just to get the flight info and then I call the airline and buy the ticket and they FedEx it to me. Works for me…

Response:

>…with all the modern technology…I also belive that there will not be >Bwana

Anything wrong with the period key on your keyboard? The custom is three dots at a time, no more. You may be right, but it won’t happen any time soon, because what we’re selling is not learning, it’s a brand name. A Hahvahd degree has more cachet than a  State U. degree. The more we treat students poorly, the more the parents line up to pay more money. No, you can’t automate that any time soon. Although computers are getting better all the time.

Response:

……let’ s get this straight..you have no problem paying a service fee to write checks for YOUR money…..you have no problem having to pay "Shipping and handling" charges….you have to problem using an ATM MACHINE…not even a person…and paying a service fee…again…for your money….leaving an industry average 15% gratutity to a waiter/waitress…and in some places having it already included in your bill….naw…you don’t complain…BUT…you object to paying a small service fee to have someone take the time to research fares on the various airlines…the connections…the best available times…lowest

Response:

> ……let’ s get this straight..you have no problem paying a service fee > to write checks for YOUR money…..you have no problem having to pay > "Shipping and handling" charges….you have to problem using an ATM > MACHINE…not even a person…and paying a service fee…again…for your > money….leaving an industry average 15% gratutity to a > waiter/waitress…and in some places having it already included in your > bill….naw…you don’t complain…BUT…you object to paying a small > service fee to have someone take the time to research fares on the various > airlines…the connections…the best available times…lowest

Why should I pay an agent a fee when I can walk into an airline city ticket office or use the internet (if I need to do research) for free? Also, my bank offers me free checking and I do not get charged for ATM useage. I don’t mind paying shipping fees when they are in place of state sales tax which is usually more in my state anyway.

Response:

> ……let’ s get this straight..you have no problem paying a service fee > to write checks for YOUR money…..you have no problem having to pay > "Shipping and handling" charges….you have to problem using an ATM > MACHINE…not even a person…and paying a service fee…again…for your > money….leaving an industry average 15% gratutity to a > waiter/waitress…and in some places having it already included in your > bill….naw…you don’t complain…BUT…you object to paying a small > service fee to have someone take the time to research fares on the various > airlines…the connections…the best available times…lowest

I might consider paying for this if I could be assured of actually getting it. Most travel agents I have been to, outside of our corporate ones, have no ideas about the items stated above. It is much easier, faster, and cheaper for me to look up the info myself. However, I thought the TAs were selling a product. I would never go to a TA for the purpose of just buying a plane ticket. If I buy a house, car, dockers, etc, I expect the sales price to be included. If Sears started charging for service, I may go elsewhere. I do object to paying a 15 percent "gratuity" to waiters. I think too many people have lost sight of what this is for. It is a reward for good service, not an obligation. And, if I get poor service at places where the 15% is automatic, you can bet I will refuse to pay it. I had extremely poor service at a Marriott Hotel restaurant once and did not tip. Would you believe the waitress actually called by room to find out why.  One call to management and the whole meal was removed from my bill. The waitress actually expected to be tipped for poor service, because everyone did it. Michael

Response:

> This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting > commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel > agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. > We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently > to find the lowest fare…..

On page 4 of this weeks (9/15/97) Business Travel News (BTN) is the following article.  Interesting as it shows some logic behind the airlines desire to curb commissions to travel agencies. Allowing customers to buy its travel services online and directly from the airlines has slashed Reno Air’s distribution costs by 75 percent, according to figures pulled together by the carrier, which recently enlarged its in-house reservations system in Las Vegas.  On an average $60 fare, tickets booked online cost only $2.50 to process, compare with $10 for tickets booked through an external online provider.   Electronic tickets cost only 10 cents.  But for bookings made through travel agents, Reno Air said, it pays a 10 percent commission – $6 on a typical $60 fare – plus $3 fee to CRS and $1 in processing costs, for a total processing tab of a whopping 16.7 percent.

Response:

> This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting > commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel > agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. > We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently > to find the lowest fare…..

I have a good relationship with a travel agent but only seek her advice when it comes to planning family vacations.  Many travel agencies have knowledgeable staff regarding specific regions of the world and can recommend great destinations.   However, with this travel agency as well as all the other travel agencies that I have used in the past, I find their ability and/or desire to find you the lowest priced advanced purchase tickets to be a miserable failure.  I fly about once a month to a great variety of destinations and it’s amazing how I consistently am able to book lower fares through the internet than I get quoted from a travel agency.  On top of that, my travel agency started charging a $10 service fee per ticketing to compensate for the lower commissions.  Although I like the staff there very much, I highly doubt I will even bother calling them for simple plane ticket purchases ever again.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting > commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel > agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. > We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently > to find the lowest fare….. > I have a good relationship with a travel agent but only seek her advice > when it comes to planning family vacations.  Many travel agencies have > knowledgeable staff regarding specific regions of the world and can > recommend great destinations. > However, with this travel agency as well as all the other travel agencies > that I have used in the past, I find their ability and/or desire to find > you the lowest priced advanced purchase tickets to be a miserable > failure.  I fly about once a month to a great variety of destinations and > it’s amazing how I consistently am able to book lower fares through the > internet than I get quoted from a travel agency.  On top of that, my > travel agency started charging a $10 service fee per ticketing to > compensate for the lower commissions.  Although I like the staff there > very much, I highly doubt I will even bother calling them for simple plane > ticket purchases ever again.

It seems that charging the customer a fee, determined by each agency, is the future for travel agents.  Some agency’s will charge more per transaction but offer higher service levels, others will become "no-frills" agencies.  It will be up to the individual traveler to determine what services they need and how much they are willing to pay for those services.   The travel agencies are soon to face the same decisions that the airlines faced with deregulation.  How much to charge, how much service to offer, how to contain costs, what is the correct balance of price to service for the market that they are trying to reach?  Some agencies will disappear, others will flourish. It is not a pleasent thing to go through, I do not envey the agencies.  This is a big reality check for many agencies, the price of failure is high, but the potential rewards are staggering.  Good luck to all. -Seth

Response:

>> This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting > commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel > agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. > We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently > to find the lowest fare….. >Or use an online service to do it yourself.

Do you know an unbiased, no charge, online service?  One that includes Southwest and other discount carriers?  One that delivers tickets, the same day, if required, to my office at no additional charge?  (I have been bounced by an airline with no compensation offered with a valid ticket, and would have never gotten anything without that ticket as a record, don’t tell me how electronic ticketing is sufficient!) If so, let me know where to find this on the web, and I will consider that travel agents have gone the way of the buggy whip. Dick

Response:

>This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting >commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel >agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. >We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently >to find the lowest fare…..

I guess you haven’t noticed this amazing new thing called the World Wide Web? It seems to me that TAs should be grateful for the commission cut — maybe it will inspire them to rethink their role before they go the way of blacksmiths.

Response:

…with all the modern technology…I also belive that there will not be Bwana

Response:

>…with all the modern technology…I also belive that there will not be >Bwana

For many aspects of a college education, there’s already no need. Except that parents want their kiddies out of the house…

Response:

>This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting >commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel >agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. >We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently >to find the lowest fare…..

Times change. I used to have typists do all my documents, now I do them myself and its actually easier (the typists were invariably illiterate). That whole job classification has practically vanished. Similarly, so many travel agents are barely competent that many of us are happy to replace them with more efficient technology (in this case, the web). One day your grandchildren will say "Grandpa, what’s a travel agent?" And you’ll be able to tell them such stories of the old days, when we had handwritten paper tickets with red ‘carbon’ on the back of each coupon….they’ll listen wide-eyed.

Response:

> This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting > commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel > agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. > We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently > to find the lowest fare…..

Or use an online service to do it yourself.

Response:

This morning’s Wall St Journal said that AA and DL joined UA in limiting commissions to 8%.  The airlines are basically trying to eliminate all travel agents in the long run; i.e., they wish to compete with their own customers. We will be back to the days where you have to call every airline independently to find the lowest fare…..

Response: