Question:
Southwest (WN) is quickly converting this former Delta fanatic. The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, the employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows. I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, eliminating the lines at the gates. Anyway, I had booked a flight for this summer at a rate of $274 round trip, which was pretty damn good for nonstop BHM-LAS. Today I got an email announcing an internet sale on this route, down to $161 RT. I called WN and, to my amazement did not get any bullshit about change fees, penalties, etc. Instead the lady walked me through the process of cancelling and re-booking. Now I have the same ticket I had before, PLUS a credit for a future flight (within one year) of $113.00. Try that trick with any other US airline. Andrew
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It’s always good to try tricks with airlines.
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> Southwest (WN) is quickly converting this former Delta fanatic. > The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit,
Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to holding the group for security inspections. the > employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the > pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows.
Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important thing to know at 35000 feet. How much can you see? > I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have > allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, > eliminating the lines at the gates.
What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to be in group 1. > Anyway, I had booked a flight for this summer at a rate of $274 round > trip, which was pretty damn good for nonstop BHM-LAS. Today I got an > email announcing an internet sale on this route, down to $161 RT. I > called WN and, to my amazement did not get any bullshit about change > fees, penalties, etc. Instead the lady walked me through the process > of cancelling and re-booking.
What do you mean "walked me through"? Can you do this online? > Now I have the same ticket I had before, PLUS a credit for a future > flight (within one year) of $113.00. > Try that trick with any other US airline.
You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that does this.
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EVERYTHING to your dumn ass??? Ignoring momentarily the fact that you seem enjoy provoking responses, I will reply to the points you raise. > The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, >Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to >holding the group for security inspections.
In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are running behind. My last two flights on WN both arrived ahead of schedule. > the > employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the > pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows. >Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important >thing to know at 35000 feet. >How much can you see?
Quite a bit, actually, if you are not too jaded to enjoy it. I still enjoy the experience of flying and appreciate the pilot pointing out landmarks and points of interest. I also like updates on the route, arrival time, and weather at destination. > I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have > allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, > eliminating the lines at the gates. >What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to >be in group 1.
Granted that is a problem with WN, but more often than not, I am either on a nonstop or flying through without changing, so the problem is not as pronounced for me. > Anyway, I had booked a flight for this summer at a rate of $274 round > trip, which was pretty damn good for nonstop BHM-LAS. Today I got an > email announcing an internet sale on this route, down to $161 RT. I > called WN and, to my amazement did not get any bullshit about change > fees, penalties, etc. Instead the lady walked me through the process > of cancelling and re-booking. >What do you mean "walked me through"? >Can you do this online?
She had to cancel the previous ticket over the phone, but she made sure I had the web rate locked in before doing so. We synchronized our efforts to make sure I got what I needed. > Now I have the same ticket I had before, PLUS a credit for a future > flight (within one year) of $113.00. > Try that trick with any other US airline. >You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that >does this.
Last time I tried this *exact* same thing with DL, they tried to charge me a $100 change fee. What other airlines have this policy? I’ll be sure to start using them from now on. Andrew
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America West for one. Booked 3 seats BWI-LAS for $400. Month later went to $287. Called and received vouchers for $113 each for use within the year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EVERYTHING to your dumn ass??? > Ignoring momentarily the fact that you seem enjoy provoking responses, > I will reply to the points you raise. >> The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, >Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to >holding the group for security inspections. > In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually > keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are > running behind. > My last two flights on WN both arrived ahead of schedule. > the >> employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the >> pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows. >Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important >thing to know at 35000 feet. >How much can you see? > Quite a bit, actually, if you are not too jaded to enjoy it. I still > enjoy the experience of flying and appreciate the pilot pointing out > landmarks and points of interest. I also like updates on the route, > arrival time, and weather at destination. >> I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have >> allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, >> eliminating the lines at the gates. >What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to >be in group 1. > Granted that is a problem with WN, but more often than not, I am > either on a nonstop or flying through without changing, so the problem > is not as pronounced for me. >> Anyway, I had booked a flight for this summer at a rate of $274 round >> trip, which was pretty damn good for nonstop BHM-LAS. Today I got an >> email announcing an internet sale on this route, down to $161 RT. I >> called WN and, to my amazement did not get any bullshit about change >> fees, penalties, etc. Instead the lady walked me through the process >> of cancelling and re-booking. >What do you mean "walked me through"? >Can you do this online? > She had to cancel the previous ticket over the phone, but she made > sure I had the web rate locked in before doing so. We synchronized > our efforts to make sure I got what I needed. >> Now I have the same ticket I had before, PLUS a credit for a future >> flight (within one year) of $113.00. >> Try that trick with any other US airline. >You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that >does this. > Last time I tried this *exact* same thing with DL, they tried to > charge me a $100 change fee. > What other airlines have this policy? I’ll be sure to start using > them from now on. > Andrew
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> >> The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, >Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to >holding the group for security inspections. > In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually > keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are > running behind.
If they are making you late, does the reason matter that much if you want to/have to be somewhere Plus, I was only talking about their recent slip in the on time ratings. Obviously your mileage may vary, but they are not number 1 anymore. > My last two flights on WN both arrived ahead of schedule.
So? My last two AA flights arrived ahead of schedule. Since there are fewer planes flying in the US, this is a fairly common occurrence now. >Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important >thing to know at 35000 feet. >How much can you see? > Quite a bit, actually, if you are not too jaded to enjoy it. I still > enjoy the experience of flying and appreciate the pilot pointing out > landmarks and points of interest. I also like updates on the route, > arrival time, and weather at destination.
Funny, I seem to get this on AA too. And the rates from SJC-SNA are usually about the same. Sometimes AA is less, sometimes WN, but usually they are about the same. Often the cheaper WN tickets sell out faster and the price is substantially more than AA, but many people think WN always has the lowest fares, so they don’t look elsewhere. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to >be in group 1. > Granted that is a problem with WN, but more often than not, I am > either on a nonstop or flying through without changing, so the problem > is not as pronounced for me. >You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that >does this. > Last time I tried this *exact* same thing with DL, they tried to > charge me a $100 change fee. > What other airlines have this policy? I’ll be sure to start using > them from now on.
http://www.delta.com/care/faq/travel_faq/refunds/index.jsp#refund_adjust I could find more, but one should be enough for now since your post said "Try that trick with any other US airline"
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cattle call airline plus by the time they load all so called handicapped disabled seniors people` `needing extra time with or without kids the planes best seats and overheads bins are ripped off even if you had a low boarding pass number you end up usually in back of plane at the toilets plus you get off last too.
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For some reason that’s the same with me. People claim it is a discount airline, but I always find their discount rates with no avail (read now for May, medium and short term as well) and end up fairing better prices with others. Moreover, I would like to see some signifcant discount before doing the cattle travel.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, > >Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to > >holding the group for security inspections. > In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually > keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are > running behind. > If they are making you late, does the reason matter that much if you > want to/have to be somewhere > Plus, I was only talking about their recent slip in the on time ratings. > Obviously your mileage may vary, but they are not number 1 anymore. > My last two flights on WN both arrived ahead of schedule. > So? My last two AA flights arrived ahead of schedule. > Since there are fewer planes flying in the US, this is a fairly common > occurrence now. > >Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important > >thing to know at 35000 feet. > >How much can you see? > Quite a bit, actually, if you are not too jaded to enjoy it. I still > enjoy the experience of flying and appreciate the pilot pointing out > landmarks and points of interest. I also like updates on the route, > arrival time, and weather at destination. > Funny, I seem to get this on AA too. And the rates from SJC-SNA are > usually about the same. > Sometimes AA is less, sometimes WN, but usually they are about the same. > Often the cheaper WN tickets sell out faster and the price is > substantially more than AA, but many people think WN always has the > lowest fares, so they don’t look elsewhere. > >What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to > >be in group 1. > Granted that is a problem with WN, but more often than not, I am > either on a nonstop or flying through without changing, so the problem > is not as pronounced for me. > >You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that > >does this. > Last time I tried this *exact* same thing with DL, they tried to > charge me a $100 change fee. > What other airlines have this policy? I’ll be sure to start using > them from now on. > http://www.delta.com/care/faq/travel_faq/refunds/index.jsp#refund_adjust > I could find more, but one should be enough for now since your post said > "Try that trick with any other US airline"
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> For some reason that’s the same with me. People claim it is a discount > airline, but I always find their discount rates with no avail (read now for > May, medium and short term as well) and end up fairing better prices with > others. Moreover, I would like to see some signifcant discount before doing > the cattle travel.
In all fairness, their fare tend to be lower than other major carrier for short notice travel. If you can book ahead, look at other airline and not just WN.
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EVERYTHING to your dumn ass??? >http://www.delta.com/care/faq/travel_faq/refunds/index.jsp#refund_adjust >I could find more, but one should be enough for now since your post said >"Try that trick with any other US airline"
Nope. Read the following: the lower fare is not a special delta.com only fare (My WN fare was a web-only fare.) Any applicable penalties are retroactive to the new fare ticket. (meaning exactly what I said…. they will charge the $100 change fee before issuing any credit.) Andrew
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<snip> > Southwest (WN) is quickly converting this former Delta fanatic. > The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, the > employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the > pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows. > I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have > allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, > eliminating the lines at the gates.
</snip> ======= I’ll be taking Southwest (MDW to LAS) in April, my first time using them for about 4 years I believe. I’ve always seen huge lines at LAS so my guess is expect a long wait, although curbside may be a choice. I’ll post my experience with them after my trip. As stated in another thread, I just have a carry-on so I’ll be using the kiosk(to get boarding pass) at MDW. None at LAS yet ;-( OZ – former National Airlines flyer
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EVERYTHING to your dumn ass??? > Ignoring momentarily the fact that you seem enjoy provoking responses, > I will reply to the points you raise. >> The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, >Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to >holding the group for security inspections. > In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually > keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are > running behind. > My last two flights on WN both arrived ahead of schedule.
My only 2 flights on WN departed and arrived more than 15 minutes late. They still felt the need to announce you were flying the "on time airline" which I found a tad rude. Sorta, "yeah, you’re late but we’ll still keep our arrival time record". I’ve notice that they have been slipping however. > the >> employees treat with you with respect instead of contempt, and the >> pilots still talk to passengers about cool stuff outside the windows.
The only respect I got was a nonanswer to a simple question, repeated twice as if somehow I didn’t notice that it didn’t answer the question the first time ’round. >Right, like "We are flying over Cleveland right now" is an important >thing to know at 35000 feet. >How much can you see? > Quite a bit, actually, if you are not too jaded to enjoy it. I still > enjoy the experience of flying and appreciate the pilot pointing out > landmarks and points of interest. I also like updates on the route, > arrival time, and weather at destination.
I don’t really care one way or another except if I’m watching on board entertainment, listening to music, or trying to sleep. Then it’s a rude interruption. >> I don’t even mind the chaotic boarding process, since they have >> allowed check-ins at the main counter 2 hours before departure, >> eliminating the lines at the gates. >What happens if you are connecting? It seems like this makes it hard to >be in group 1. > Granted that is a problem with WN, but more often than not, I am > either on a nonstop or flying through without changing, so the problem > is not as pronounced for me.
It is a problem beyond that since WN is notorious for alot of "line standing" which can be avoided on other airlines. Delta, the specific airline you mentioned, is actually working on a current campaign to make the lines extremely short. [snip] >> Now I have the same ticket I had before, PLUS a credit for a future >> flight (within one year) of $113.00. >> Try that trick with any other US airline. >You must have missed the other postings. WN is not the only airline that >does this. > Last time I tried this *exact* same thing with DL, they tried to > charge me a $100 change fee. > What other airlines have this policy? I’ll be sure to start using > them from now on.
This (and you) is the target audience for WN. Folks who don’t mind standing in alot of lines. Expect the flight crew to double as entertainment. Have last minute changes/flights to make. Don’t have to make alot of connections. Don’t mind "chaotic boarding processes". Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren’t looking for the lowest common denominator in our air travel, WN is driving the rest of the industry in the same direction that "reality TV" has driven that medium. I call it the "tyranny of the plurality".
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> Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren’t looking for the lowest > common denominator in our air travel, WN is driving the rest of > the industry in the same direction that "reality TV" has driven > that medium. I call it the "tyranny of the plurality".
I don’t understand the continuing prejudice against Southwest. It’s not like service on the majors is significantly better. If I wasn’t a CO Plat. I would probably fly Southwest exclusively (assuming they go where I need to go, which they usually do). If you’re just a regular passenger, the regular airlines treat you like shit (it’s really not much better as an elite, except that you board first and actually get something edible to eat), you are treated like a necessary evil and they nickel and dime you whenever they can. Southwest offers a consistent, if slightly different, product. DOesn’t make them worse. Mike.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>The planes take off and land on time, without any bullshit, >>Actually their own time arrival record has dropped a few notches due to >>holding the group for security inspections. >In my experience, it is still way above the rest, and they actually >keep you informed rather than try to obfuscate the fact they they are >running behind. > If they are making you late, does the reason matter that much if you > want to/have to be somewhere > Plus, I was only talking about their recent slip in the on time ratings. > Obviously your mileage may vary, but they are not number 1 anymore.
Actually, according to the latest DOT numbers they are sixth. But I think that’s because the bar has been raised by the competition. In 1998 WN was in first place with 80.8 percent of flights on time http://www.planebusiness.com/tscolumns/ts0220992.html Now they are in sixth place with 82.6 percent of flights on time http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/mcherald/business/5101554.htm
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> cattle call airline plus by the time they load all so called > handicapped disabled seniors people` `needing extra time with or without > kids the planes best seats and overheads bins are ripped off even if you > had a low boarding pass number you end up usually in back of plane at > the toilets plus you get off last too.
With respect to Southwest, they have never said they were anything except a no-frills low-cost airline. Having said that, my annoyance with the boarding process is that often times those with low numbers will toss their jackets and bags on seats in order to save these for others who are near the back of the boarding line. And I have started to tell those attempting to reserve seats that this time they are out of luck. After a colleague and I sat in ‘reserved’ seats the lady went foul mouth and then quickly quieted down and went scampering to the back of the plane when an FA approached to see what the commotion was all about. And we explained the circumstances to the FA and she told us that it was our right to seat ourselves in any unoccupied seat. I would encourage other WN passengers to do likewise when confronted with reserved seating, and maybe be can put a stop to this obnoxious practice. And if you are flying WN and have members of your group towards the rear of the boarding, do all of us a favor and either locate seats in the rear of the aircraft or plan not to all sit together. Or better yet, fly with a carrier that provides reserved seating.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EVERYTHING to your dumn ass??? >http://www.delta.com/care/faq/travel_faq/refunds/index.jsp#refund_adjust >I could find more, but one should be enough for now since your post said >"Try that trick with any other US airline" > Nope. > Read the following: > the lower fare is not a special delta.com only fare (My WN fare was a > web-only fare.) > Any applicable penalties are retroactive to the new fare ticket. > (meaning exactly what I said…. they will charge the $100 change fee > before issuing any credit.)
No, it means if you want to change your new ticket, you will pay the penalty. There is no charge for a fare decrease. I know, I did one last month. As long as the seats are available in the lower fare class, you get a voucher for the difference.
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No, it means if you want to change your new ticket, you will pay the penalty. There is no charge for a fare decrease. I know, I did one last month. As long as the seats are available in the lower fare class, you get a voucher for the difference. If you are just referring to WN here, this may be true but it is no longer the case with CO. They informed me last month that you must still pay them the fee ($100 domestic $200 international) first and what is left from any price decrease goes towards a travel voucher. As they put it *CO is no longer in a position to do any favors for passengers*. So one must be fully aware of the fees before purchasing these non-refundable tickets now. This is even if the seats are available in the lower fare class. Mary
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> No, it means if you want to change your new ticket, you will pay the > penalty. > There is no charge for a fare decrease. I know, I did one last month. As > long as the seats are available in the lower fare class, you get a > voucher for the difference. > If you are just referring to WN here, this may be true but it is no > longer the case with CO.
No, I was referring to DL and I know there are other carriers that let you do it. Follow the thread…….
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> > Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren’t looking for the lowest > common denominator in our air travel, WN is driving the rest of > the industry in the same direction that "reality TV" has driven > that medium. I call it the "tyranny of the plurality". > I don’t understand the continuing prejudice against Southwest. It’s not like > service on the majors is significantly better.
Nah, but it used to be. They’ve all gotten worse. I call it the "Southwest effect".
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>> I don’t understand the continuing prejudice against Southwest. It’s not like > service on the majors is significantly better. > Nah, but it used to be. They’ve all gotten worse. I call > it the "Southwest effect".
Maybe 10-15 years ago. I’ve been a regular flyer since the early 90’s, and service on the majors have been consistently mediocre (and getting worse, at an accelerating pace). It was only ‘good’ in my younger daze (80’s and earlier). Southwest, on the other hand, has offered decent, friendly service from the first time I flew w/ them. Obviously, SouthWest must be doing something right if they can still make $, while the other majors are all losing $ hand over fist, all the while nickle and diming us to death. Mike.
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> >> I don’t understand the continuing prejudice against Southwest. It’s not like >> service on the majors is significantly better. > Nah, but it used to be. They’ve all gotten worse. I call > it the "Southwest effect". > Maybe 10-15 years ago. I’ve been a regular flyer since the early 90’s, and > service on the majors have been consistently mediocre (and getting worse, at > an accelerating pace). It was only ‘good’ in my younger daze (80’s and > earlier).
Which is roughly the time that Southwest started to grow and influence the situation (them and several others, some of which WN ultimately bought) > Southwest, on the other hand, has offered decent, friendly service > from the first time I flew w/ them.
Well, the offered the same product they still do. Little service at a price competetive with a bus (or car actually) > Obviously, SouthWest must be doing > something right if they can still make $, while the other majors are all > losing $ hand over fist, all the while nickle and diming us to death.
Well, actually, you’ll get more for fewer nickles and dimes with the majors, but yes, WN has developed a very successful model. It isn’t a product I’m particularly interested in buying. What I was describing is that because they have been successful, the product I’m looking for is getting harder and harder to find. "Tyranny of the plurality" as I call it.
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One advantage to SWA’s open seating that I haven’t seen mentioned yet, is that it should theoretically make it easier to get a dinner date. — wf. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > earlier). Southwest, on the other hand, has offered decent, friendly service > from the first time I flew w/ them. Obviously, SouthWest must be doing > something right if they can still make $, while the other majors are all > losing $ hand over fist, all the while nickle and diming us to death. > Mike.
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Absolutely. Air travel has deteriorated to the least common denominator – Southwest. And now the airlines are crying that people aren’t flying. Quite frankly, the "value" is gone and the airlines (at least in the U.S. domestic industry) are likely to go the way of the passenger railroads in this country. If there is no difference from the "no frills" carriers and the "full service" ones (and, BTW, meal service is a "difference", regardless of what they think). At least American gives passengers in coach a bit more legroom (which is a MAJOR difference, IMHO), but the others??? Count me in on this rant. Jeff
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Unfortunately, for the rest of us who aren’t looking for the lowest > > common denominator in our air travel, WN is driving the rest of > > the industry in the same direction that "reality TV" has driven > > that medium. I call it the "tyranny of the plurality". > I don’t understand the continuing prejudice against Southwest. It’s not like > service on the majors is significantly better. > Nah, but it used to be. They’ve all gotten worse. I call > it the "Southwest effect".
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> Maybe 10-15 years ago. I’ve been a regular flyer since the early 90’s, and > service on the majors have been consistently mediocre (and getting worse, at > an accelerating pace). It was only ‘good’ in my younger daze (80’s and > earlier). Southwest, on the other hand, has offered decent, friendly service > from the first time I flew w/ them. Obviously, SouthWest must be doing > something right if they can still make $, while the other majors are all > losing $ hand over fist, all the while nickle and diming us to death. > Mike.
Might as well save your typing. I like ‘em too–they always get me where I want to go, and back, no muss, no fuss, and Rapid Rewards is great–but the anti-Herb crowd (oconnell, Mattocks, etc.) will never agree, so why bother? WN doesn’t seem to need their business anyway. 
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> Absolutely. Air travel has deteriorated to the least common denominator – > Southwest. And now the airlines are crying that people aren’t flying. Quite > frankly, the "value" is gone and the airlines (at least in the U.S. domestic > industry) are likely to go the way of the passenger railroads in this > country. If there is no difference from the "no frills" carriers and the > "full service" ones (and, BTW, meal service is a "difference", regardless of > what they think). At least American gives passengers in coach a bit more > legroom (which is a MAJOR difference, IMHO), but the others??? > Count me in on this rant.
[snip] Well, and let’s be clear, it’s not that WN has done anything "wrong". They put together a business model and they pursued it successfully. To a great degree I guess I am surprised by the number of customers that have taken on the attitude of "go ahead and treat me like self loading cargo as long as you save me $15". There are a load of reasons why we as customers have tolerated this long slow decline, but make no mistake, it is as bad as it is because we continued to buy the tickets regardless of how they treated folks. American is an excellent example. The leg room IS a vast improvement, but is it a truely differentiating characteristic? Apparently not from all that we’ve heard. You don’t see the other airlines feeling the pressure to change. But we’ll hear a weekly explanation of how the airlines feel the need to be "more like WN".
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http://www.continental.com I book hotels and car rentals from the same webpage too! NOW you know why I have over a million not-yet-used CO FFMs. :) DISCLAIMER: I have NO business-affiliation of any kind, present or past, with the Continental Airlines, or any travel agency; and I do NOT own any stocks in any airlines. :-)) Just a hard-nosed cost-benefit-analyst and satisfied customer who pays for ALL his travels out-of-pocket, except occasionally by consulting clients. — Bob. 
/EJS