Air Travel

Question:

> Well, if they don’t have any kind of x-ray and security, then their > preventing my luggage from traveling on a different flight "for > security" reasons doesn’t make much sense, does it.

Using that logic, with x-ray and security, what’s the point of requiring your luggage to be with you?  I think the underlying reasoning is that if a passenger wants to be seperated from his/her bags, there’s a reason for it.  Who would want to travel with a bomb on the plane?  These rules were set up long ago to prevent terrorists from sticking bombs in bags and not boarding the flight. –Dan

Response:

> So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why > is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight?

How did you know they X-rayed it?

Response:

> Well, if they don’t have any kind of x-ray and security, then their > preventing my luggage from traveling on a different flight "for > security" reasons doesn’t make much sense, does it.

The idea is that you would be less likely to blow up a plane that had you on it. Michael

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > > > > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > > > > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it. > > > You have no control over not being on the same flight when a bag is > > > lost. You have some control in choosing to fly standby instead of taking > > > your delayed flight. So, it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a > > > security problem if the bag is lost, because when you don’t know the bag > > > isn’t on your flight. > > > In the case of taking a different flight (by standing by for an earlier > > > one) than the bag, you know it isn’t on your flight. > > So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why > > is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight? > How do you know that?  That’s not SOP for checked baggage. >Well, if they don’t have any kind of x-ray and security, then their >preventing my luggage from traveling on a different flight "for >security" reasons doesn’t make much sense, does it.

Uh, the idea is that you’re less likely to blow up a plane with yourself on it. I think a lot of this thread has missed that (or totally taken it for granted, letting the respondents miss it).

Response:

> > So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why > > is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight? > How do you know that?  That’s not SOP for checked baggage. > Well, if they don’t have any kind of x-ray and security, then their > preventing my luggage from traveling on a different flight "for > security" reasons doesn’t make much sense, does it.

Sure it does.  I doubt that the perpetrators of the Thai airlines bombing recently were scheduled to take that flight.  And Mark Rogers has already given an example of someone on one of his flights recently who had an anxiety attack immediately before pushback and asked off the plane.  When asked by the Captain if he wanted his checked bags removed, he said no.  The Captain ordered the bags removed.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > > > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > > > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it. > > You have no control over not being on the same flight when a bag is > > lost. You have some control in choosing to fly standby instead of taking > > your delayed flight. So, it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a > > security problem if the bag is lost, because when you don’t know the bag > > isn’t on your flight. > > In the case of taking a different flight (by standing by for an earlier > > one) than the bag, you know it isn’t on your flight. > So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why > is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight? > How do you know that?  That’s not SOP for checked baggage.

Well, if they don’t have any kind of x-ray and security, then their preventing my luggage from traveling on a different flight "for security" reasons doesn’t make much sense, does it.

Response:

Thanks, but I’d like to clarify your final comment.  Southwest DOES have baggage checkers at your home airport (MSY).  So at least Southwest’s bags that arrive on an earlier flight are somewhat secure, at least more than Continental’s.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheryl, to answer your question, this was Continental. Evidentally, all > the luggage flew from our original destination, got on another > connecting flight and landed at home hours before we did. > Our main concern about all the luggage that got to the destination early > was that they were all left in this  area for hours where anyone could > have walked up and taken them.  There was about 12 of us looking and we > only found them because this skycap remembered that some luggage which > came in earlier had been put in this open area.    This really > encourages theft because at our home airport, as in many, no one usually > checks that the luggage you take from baggage area is really yours. > Mary

Response:

> >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it. > You have no control over not being on the same flight when a bag is > lost. You have some control in choosing to fly standby instead of taking > your delayed flight. So, it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a > security problem if the bag is lost, because when you don’t know the bag > isn’t on your flight. > In the case of taking a different flight (by standing by for an earlier > one) than the bag, you know it isn’t on your flight.

So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight? I have to say that I wished I had just used carry-ons.  If I had, I could have gotten on any flight I wished.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it. > You have no control over not being on the same flight when a bag is > lost. You have some control in choosing to fly standby instead of taking > your delayed flight. So, it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a > security problem if the bag is lost, because when you don’t know the bag > isn’t on your flight. > In the case of taking a different flight (by standing by for an earlier > one) than the bag, you know it isn’t on your flight. > So?  In both cases, the bag has been x-rayed and passed security.  Why > is it more dangerous if I decide to take another flight?

How do you know that?  That’s not SOP for checked baggage.

Response:

Sheryl, to answer your question, this was Continental. Evidentally, all the luggage flew from our original destination, got on another connecting flight and landed at home hours before we did. Our main concern about all the luggage that got to the destination early was that they were all left in this  area for hours where anyone could have walked up and taken them.  There was about 12 of us looking and we only found them because this skycap remembered that some luggage which came in earlier had been put in this open area.    This really encourages theft because at our home airport, as in many, no one usually checks that the luggage you take from baggage area is really yours. Mary

Response:

Was this on Southwest, because they do this ALL the time which really ticks me off.  In fact, I’ve been told by Southwest that your bag has to be on your flight yet they always, in my experience for many years now, put it on the first flight to your destination after you check it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Evidentally on domestic flights some airlines are not too strict on the > rules for baggage being on the same flight with the passengers from  our > recent experience.  We checked in early and,  without letting us know, > the airline put our bags on the flight ahead of ours to our > destination.  We were not told this was being done or offered seats on > the earlier flight. (They may not have had 2 seats available).   Later, > while searching for our bags at our final destination,  we found that > they had been sitting on the side and had arrived several hours earlier. > Two other couples also had this happen to them on that same flight. > They had also checked in early.   We prefer the stricter policy when it > comes to our baggage being on the same plane with us. > Mary

Response:

> No, but when a flight I was on was delayed and delayed due to mechanical > difficulties, and I asked to go standby on the next flight (from a > different gate), I was told that I could not, because my luggage was > already loaded on the original plane. > I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the > bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA > security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane > either.

So if you didn’t take either flight the bag would have travelled without you? Or, they would have had to find a way to pull it off the original plane!

Response:

> > No, but when a flight I was on was delayed and delayed due to mechanical > difficulties, and I asked to go standby on the next flight (from a > different gate), I was told that I could not, because my luggage was > already loaded on the original plane. > I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the > bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA > security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane > either. > This was a domestic flight?  Interesting.  What airline?

American

Response:

> I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the > bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA > security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane > either.

Customer service reps don’t know a damned thing about baggage handling. The only legal requirement is if the bag is PPBM — which applies to all international bags and select domestic bags.  Otherwise, my company would be breaking the law every day. >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it.

You’re quite right.  I won’t defend inept customer service reps, but sometimes they think they know things when they actually don’t.  I actually once tried to tell an airline what a Rule 240 was and they told me they didn’t know where they were getting this information because it was flat out wrong… –Dan

Response:

> Evidentally on domestic flights some airlines are not too strict on the > rules for baggage being on the same flight with the passengers from  our > recent experience.  We checked in early and,  without letting us know, > the airline put our bags on the flight ahead of ours to our > destination.  We were not told this was being done or offered seats on > the earlier flight. (They may not have had 2 seats available).   Later, > while searching for our bags at our final destination,  we found that > they had been sitting on the side and had arrived several hours earlier. > Two other couples also had this happen to them on that same flight. > They had also checked in early.   We prefer the stricter policy when it > comes to our baggage being on the same plane with us.

Keep in mind that baggage handlers are typically making minimum wage or close to it.  As far as we’re concerned, getting your bag to your destination is the priority.  We pay (or try to pay) careful attention tot he destination but the flight number is a passing thought. –Dan

Response:

Evidentally on domestic flights some airlines are not too strict on the rules for baggage being on the same flight with the passengers from  our recent experience.  We checked in early and,  without letting us know, the airline put our bags on the flight ahead of ours to our destination.  We were not told this was being done or offered seats on the earlier flight. (They may not have had 2 seats available).   Later, while searching for our bags at our final destination,  we found that they had been sitting on the side and had arrived several hours earlier. Two other couples also had this happen to them on that same flight. They had also checked in early.   We prefer the stricter policy when it comes to our baggage being on the same plane with us. Mary  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > He reported this to WN lost baggage and expressed his concern that he > thought his bag could have been placed on an earlier flight and the person > who had a similar bag picked up his bag by accident.  Lost baggage said that > was doubtful because the fact that he purchased his ticket within 2 hours of > departure required that his bag be placed on his flight after the airline > was assured that he would actually be taking that flight (security > precaution).  Several years ago, when I stood by for a DL flight, I was told > my checked bag would not be placed on the flight until I cleared standby, > but that is a different situation because he was not a standby.  He had a > paid ticket for his flight.  Lost baggage was hopeful his bag would come in > on the next flight.  But here’s the disturbing part.  He was told that > Southwest doesn’t utilize electronic bag tracking.  I’m pretty sure > Southwest’s luggage tags have bar codes on them, but evidently they are not > used. > Has anyone heard of a rule that requires the airline to not board a bag on a > U.S. domestic flight until it is confirmed that the passenger boards if that > passenger purchased his ticket within two hours of departure?

To answer your last question first, yes, I’ve heard of that rule but it isn’t written that way.  The Feds have insituted a program that’s been discussed here before — Positive Passenger Baggage Match (PPBM, and I think it’s federally mandated, because it’s too much work for every airline to voluntarily go through).  The computer that prints out the ABT’s (Automated Bag Tags which have the printouts and the bar codes) has some internal criteria that will flag a bag as PPBM (and prints it out right on the tag).  I don’t know what the criteria is (paying cash for a one-way international ticket is one) but the computer does. In general, the passenger cannot voluntarily seperate himself from his bags, but the airline can do whatever it damn well pleases.  It’s a logistical thing (try matching up bags to misconnected passengers) that plays against the odds.  They think if you want to seperate from your bags, you have a reason for it, but the odds of us seperating a random pasenger with a bag with a bomb are pretty low.  Unless it’s a PPBM, there’s no federally mandated requirement to travel with your bag. As far as WN not electronically tracking bags, I’m not surprised.  My airline has used ABT’s for years, but only within the last few months have we been electronically scanning bags.  It’s expensive — we have to pay for the equipment (the gun costs $3000) that doesn’t have a real return on the investment.  And, the bags still get handled the old fashioned way. This is one of the cost saving things that WN does. –Dan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone heard of a rule that requires the airline to not board a bag on a > U.S. domestic flight until it is confirmed that the passenger boards if that > passenger purchased his ticket within two hours of departure? > No, but when a flight I was on was delayed and delayed due to mechanical > difficulties, and I asked to go standby on the next flight (from a > different gate), I was told that I could not, because my luggage was > already loaded on the original plane. > I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the > bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA > security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane > either. >  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it.

The rules are not as strict as international travel, but most airlines have security procedures for checked luggage.  Essentially, they are reluctant to let you intentionally choose to not travel with your luggage.  If you become separate from your luggage through no fault of your own, there are no security implications. On a recent flight from Newark, we had a passenger who suddenly had an anxiety attack just before pushback.  He was quite agitated, and requested to get off the airplane.  We had the jetway pulled back up, and we let him off.  While we were waiting for the jetway, the captain asked if he had any checked bags, and he said yes.  The captain then asked if he wanted his bags taken off the flight, and he said no.  First red flag (everybody wants their bags to stay on the same coast that they are on).  The second red flag was that he was a frequent flier, yet was suddenly having a panic attack on an evening flight that wasn’t full, and the weather was good.   We took about 15 minutes to pull his bags off.  Ultimately, if someone gets off at the last moment, it’s up to customer service and the captain to determine if the bags will be pulled, and there is some judgment involved. –Mark Rogers

Response:

Well, looks like I’m the new repository for air travel problems as I just got a call from a friend who flew LAX-OAK on Southwest this afternoon.  His checked bag did not arrive. He purchased his ticket at the airport with a credit card about an hour before scheduled departure (shame on him, I said, as he missed out on double credits when purchasing on Southwest’s website as he’s a Rapid Rewards member).  He always checks the tag (because once he had a bag tagged to the wrong airport) and it was properly tagged to OAK.  He said the duffel bag with wheels is pretty unusual, yet there was another one just like his that did come off his flight.  He arrived at baggage claim before bags from his flight began coming down the belt, so he knows that no one picked up his bag if it was on his flight.  He also said that WN tags are checked at OAK baggage claim. He reported this to WN lost baggage and expressed his concern that he thought his bag could have been placed on an earlier flight and the person who had a similar bag picked up his bag by accident.  Lost baggage said that was doubtful because the fact that he purchased his ticket within 2 hours of departure required that his bag be placed on his flight after the airline was assured that he would actually be taking that flight (security precaution).  Several years ago, when I stood by for a DL flight, I was told my checked bag would not be placed on the flight until I cleared standby, but that is a different situation because he was not a standby.  He had a paid ticket for his flight.  Lost baggage was hopeful his bag would come in on the next flight.  But here’s the disturbing part.  He was told that Southwest doesn’t utilize electronic bag tracking.  I’m pretty sure Southwest’s luggage tags have bar codes on them, but evidently they are not used. Has anyone heard of a rule that requires the airline to not board a bag on a U.S. domestic flight until it is confirmed that the passenger boards if that passenger purchased his ticket within two hours of departure?

Response:

> Has anyone heard of a rule that requires the airline to not board a bag on a > U.S. domestic flight until it is confirmed that the passenger boards if that > passenger purchased his ticket within two hours of departure?

No, but when a flight I was on was delayed and delayed due to mechanical difficulties, and I asked to go standby on the next flight (from a different gate), I was told that I could not, because my luggage was already loaded on the original plane.   I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane either.  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it.

Response:

> No, but when a flight I was on was delayed and delayed due to mechanical > difficulties, and I asked to go standby on the next flight (from a > different gate), I was told that I could not, because my luggage was > already loaded on the original plane.   > I said I didn’t care if my bag got there later, but they said that the > bag cannot travel without the passenger (they claimed it was an FAA > security regulation), and that they could not pull it off the plane > either.

This was a domestic flight?  Interesting.  What airline? Deborah Stevenson

Response:

>  This sounded like a very lame excuse to me, since whenever they lose > luggage, the luggage is put on the next flight, without the passenger. > I didn’t argue about it, but I thought they were full of it.

You have no control over not being on the same flight when a bag is lost. You have some control in choosing to fly standby instead of taking your delayed flight. So, it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a security problem if the bag is lost, because when you don’t know the bag isn’t on your flight. In the case of taking a different flight (by standing by for an earlier one) than the bag, you know it isn’t on your flight.

Response: