Air Travel

Question:

> I have never, ever seen a WN F/A ask a pax to help clean up >on a thru flight stop.  Maybe to hand him/her some trash in >the window seat when I was on the aisle; but that’s all.  >Perhaps it was one of their humorous requests?  Oh, by the way >gas is 90.9 in southern Ks and northern Ok.

Actually, I have been on WN flights where they asked for volunteers to help clean up.  They said that all you had to do was stand up before the seat belt sign went off, and that would signify that you wanted to volunteer. — Stuart Feigin Oracle Corp., Ret. Truckee, CA USA Nothing I say represents the revealed wisdom of Oracle Corporation. Larry does that.

Response:

>   It matches with > their attitude towards luggage.  They don’t openly state it but their > policies about luggage encourage carry on and discourage checking baggage. > I don’t understand what you mean. Most people that fly do so by > connecting to flights of the same airline. Since Southwest does > allow you to check bags on connecting flights, I don’t see the problem.

<snip> There are some routes where it is cheaper to buy two rountrip tickets and one of the carriers may be Southwest. Case in point. When Co Lite was flying, both CO and US flew TPA-MSY and offered cheap fares. Southwest hadnt started flying to Florida yet. So people would buy the cheap fares TPA-MSY-TPA on US or CO and MSY-HOU-MSY on WN and get from Tampa to Houston cheaper than flying on the same carrier all the way, but if they had bags checked in, they would have to claim and recheck in New Orleans both ways since WN didnt interline bags. This would also occur if WN didnt fly into a city at all and a conx were required. As far as the travel all being on WN, I dont know why they’d encourage carryon vs checked.

Response:

  It matches with > their attitude towards luggage.  They don’t openly state it but their > policies about luggage encourage carry on and discourage checking baggage.

I don’t understand what you mean. Most people that fly do so by connecting to flights of the same airline. Since Southwest does allow you to check bags on connecting flights, I don’t see the problem. > This makes it easier to bump and shuffle passengers virtually at will. > They become round pegs looking for round holes.  I suspect it > has alot to do with pushing the risk of air travel off the company and > onto the customer.  It would make you wonder what other risks they are > willing to push off onto the customers.

What do you mean "other risks"? How many fatal Southwest Crashes have there been? The fact remains that SouthWest’s boarding plan makes them have a much faster turn around time. Michael

Response:

>Southwest is: >(1) Always the price leader with low fares.  They should be rewarded >for this.  

     Unfortunately this is not always true.  They are being undercut by 20% in the Los Angeles-Las Vegas market.  I’m surprised they have decided to let America West beat them so severely on price on such a high-visibility route, and hope they reconsider. gj

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat >assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your >numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find >a decent seat. >I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost >of advance seat assignment really that high? > It’s not a cost savings measure per se, although not having to track > seat numbers probably lowers agent training costs and maintenance > costs for CRS software. > The idea is to get poeple to the gate and ready to board. If you have > a prereserved seat, you may be inclined to wait until the last moment.

        Which I could understand.  So why don’t I get a seat assignment once I arrive?  No advance seat assignment but I get one at the desk (or baggage check counter).  Then I have a seat assignment, no need to stand in anymore lines, and yet I have actually arrived.  At that point, the only real problem is the guys who wait at the bar until 2 minutes before push back.  This is simply solved by closing the door X minutes before push back.         There is another reason for which I have yet to figure out.  I suspect it has something to do with a desire to have a whole bunch of folks standing in line ready to board the aircraft.  They will have this line whether connecting flights have come in or not.  They can over book with little fear of having to straighten it out at the last minute. On any other airline, they would have to wait until X minutes before departure to start filling in no shows.  On theirs, the first 120 folks there get on, end of story, late connections or no.  It matches with their attitude towards luggage.  They don’t openly state it but their policies about luggage encourage carry on and discourage checking baggage. This makes it easier to bump and shuffle passengers virtually at will. They become round pegs looking for round holes.  I suspect it has alot to do with pushing the risk of air travel off the company and onto the customer.  It would make you wonder what other risks they are willing to push off onto the customers.

Response:

>I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat >assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your >numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find >a decent seat. >I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost >of advance seat assignment really that high?

It’s not a cost savings measure per se, although not having to track seat numbers probably lowers agent training costs and maintenance costs for CRS software. The idea is to get poeple to the gate and ready to board. If you have a prereserved seat, you may be inclined to wait until the last moment.

Response:

> We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque > (rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have > frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the > other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

I have used America West and they were fine. Airbus from PHL and on-time. alec — Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. – Elie Wiesel

Response:

> Of course, > the question is – "If WN made a profit (even during the REALLY lean > years), why are the majors unable to do it, too?"

The other majors are all now making record profits.  Southwest has a good formula and sticks to it, especially when it comes to expansion.  It probably was a number of things with the other majors, but none of them stuck to any rigid formula.  There were a lot of mergers, bad decisions, etc. —        Greg Pacek         |    when I think I hear people say    Pittsburgh, PA, USA    |    things.  More I cannot say."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat >assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your >numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find >a decent seat. >I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost >of advance seat assignment really that high? > It’s not a cost savings measure per se

Yes it is.  I remember reading that by keeping the turnaround time at airports down, they have 20 fewer planes in their fleet than they would need w/ reserved seats.

Response:

Well I have to call you on one too. We did not have a few of our planes "pulled" from service due to loose rivets.  We inspected aircraft as asked by the FAA, but none were pulled from service. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I agree that Southwest is a great airline, I fly them often,  and while I > do work for America West, I must > call you on item 4…in the last few weeks, SW has had a few of its 737’s > pulled from service due to loose rivets > on the horizontal stabilizer, this was due to the directive after the Silk > Air crash.  Also they were involved in an incredibly close > near miss on an approach into BUR when the collision avoidence system > malfunctioned.  Its not the age of the planes, its > how well they are maintained, I do believe that SW has a very good > maintenance program, when compared to many other US airlines, but to > equate age of the plane to safety is wrong.

Response:

Funny how people hit on "no seat assignments" and forget "no interline baggage".  While it’s a minor annoyance – you need to claim baggage and check it to the next destination yourself (assuming it’s _not_ WN since they obvoiusly do thier own bags) I got trapped in this last year when I was transferring netween WN and HP at MDW and due to late arrival and close connection (as a result) had to leave my bags at MDW and pick them up on the return through MDW.  PHX to ABQ  - pick whomever has the arrival time you want.  It’s a bus ride.  (If you "walk up" WN has better fares.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque > >(rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have > >frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the > >other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg > I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat > assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your > numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find > a decent seat. > I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost > of advance seat assignment really that high? > — > Steve > It’s not a matter of "the cost of advance seat assignment really that > high."  It’s just one feature that takes extra time for the reservations > agents and airport personnel.  Southwest is a low cost carrier and > that’s just one feature that would add personnel time, thus increasing > their overhead.  It’s interesting to note though, that Southwest does > provide personnel to check baggage claim tickets on arrival. > Continental discontinued that nearly two years ago.  I complained about > it in writing to the President and I received a phone call from his > office from a very pleasant woman saying that CO decided to eliminate > this service to keep down costs.  So it’s just a trade off.  For those > of us who frequently fly Southwest, the no seat assignment policy is > just no big deal.  The other benefits of the airline, IMO, outweigh it.

Response:

The ONLY bad thing about WN (Southwest) is that they fly a bus route for the longer flights (sure they don’t spend much time on the ground)  in my case, getting from SEA anywhere other than GEI, SJC, LAS, RNO, BOI, SLC, OAK (I might have missed one or so here) requires a stop (likely a change)  The "festival seating" aspect is a minor annoyance since it really doesn’t matter whether you are #1 or #30, you fight the other 29 people for a place in line to board (a jumble of 30 pax).  Of course, the question is – "If WN made a profit (even during the REALLY lean years), why are the majors unable to do it, too?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Southwest is: > (1) Always the price leader with low fares.  They should be rewarded > for this. > (2) REASONABLE TO DEAL WITH.  Their customer service people will work > with you to solve problems.  I have, by contrast, encountered problems > with America West personnel, as well as their partner Continental. > (3) On time honest service.  They keep their fares and their service > simple. > (4) It has a very new fleet of airplanes, making it, I believe, safer. > They are, far and away, my favorite airline. > Robert Rudnitsky (note: I have no connection to SW; I am just a > satisfied customer).

Response:

> advance seat assignments and Southwest doesn’t. > One thing AWA has over SWA is that they were given the JD Power and Associates > award for short-haul service in 1997 based on the opinions of Frequent Flyers.

I don’t believe Southwest was included in that study by JD Power, as you have to pay them to be included.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve never flown America West, but I can recommend Southwest for several > reasons. > First of all, they’re very reasonably priced. They sometimes have promotional > fares ($49) running, without too many restrictions you wouldn’t have on the > other restricted fares. Worst case scenario (if you have to get the ticket the > last minute and pay the full unrestricted fare), they’re still inexpensive > compared to the "big boys". > Second, they’re very customer-service oriented. Again, I can’t speak for Am. > West here, but I’ve never had any problems with Southwest, and neither has > anyone I know. The reservations people are particularly helpful in finding the > lowest fare. > The only reason I can think of that you might want to go Am. West instead is if > you need or want advance seat assignments (a previous poster mentioned this), > or (although this doesn’t apply to your flight now, it may in the future) if > you don’t want to make 2-3 stops between your destination. > Tracy

        Or 4) you want to be treated like a human being and not cattle.

Response:

> We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque > (rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have > frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the > other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

I’ve been reading through this thread, and note that you are coming from the East coast.  If you are originating in Phoenix, no problem whichever airline you choose – America West has assigned seats, Continental doesn’t; America West has their own frequent flyer program, but you can also get miles on Continental OnePass.  But what may be important to you if you’re connecting to the flight in Phoenix, is that America West will interline baggage – that is, you can check your bags all the way through.  Southwest won’t. Jeff — Jeff Hacker Please make slight modification to reply address for obvious reasons.

Response:

I wouldn’t agonize over the decision too much.  Probably only a 45-50 minute flight.  Given a choice, I’d pick SW any day over "The Worst"!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque >(rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have >frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the >other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

Response:

AWA (cactus air) assigns 70% of the seats before boarding time and the rest are assigned beginning 1 hour before boarding. assignments. Southwest boards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->in groups of 30 with open seating.

Response:

I agree that Southwest is a great airline, I fly them often,  and while I do work for America West, I must call you on item 4…in the last few weeks, SW has had a few of its 737’s pulled from service due to loose rivets on the horizontal stabilizer, this was due to the directive after the Silk Air crash.  Also they were involved in an incredibly close near miss on an approach into BUR when the collision avoidence system malfunctioned.  Its not the age of the planes, its how well they are maintained, I do believe that SW has a very good maintenance program, when compared to many other US airlines, but to equate age of the plane to safety is wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Southwest is: > (1) Always the price leader with low fares.  They should be rewarded > for this. > (2) REASONABLE TO DEAL WITH.  Their customer service people will work > with you to solve problems.  I have, by contrast, encountered problems > with America West personnel, as well as their partner Continental. > (3) On time honest service.  They keep their fares and their service > simple. > (4) It has a very new fleet of airplanes, making it, I believe, safer. > They are, far and away, my favorite airline. > Robert Rudnitsky (note: I have no connection to SW; I am just a > satisfied customer).

Response:

I’ve never flown America West, but I can recommend Southwest for several reasons. First of all, they’re very reasonably priced. They sometimes have promotional fares ($49) running, without too many restrictions you wouldn’t have on the other restricted fares. Worst case scenario (if you have to get the ticket the last minute and pay the full unrestricted fare), they’re still inexpensive compared to the "big boys". Second, they’re very customer-service oriented. Again, I can’t speak for Am. West here, but I’ve never had any problems with Southwest, and neither has anyone I know. The reservations people are particularly helpful in finding the lowest fare. The only reason I can think of that you might want to go Am. West instead is if you need or want advance seat assignments (a previous poster mentioned this), or (although this doesn’t apply to your flight now, it may in the future) if you don’t want to make 2-3 stops between your destination. Tracy

Response:

For such a short flight, both carriers will serve you well. America West has advance seat assignments and Southwest doesn’t. One thing AWA has over SWA is that they were given the JD Power and Associates award for short-haul service in 1997 based on the opinions of Frequent Flyers.

Response:

>We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque >(rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have >frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the >other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find a decent seat. I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost of advance seat assignment really that high? — Steve Once politics become a tug-of-war for shares in the income pie, decent government is impossible.         * Friedrich A. Hayek

Response:

We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque (rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque >(rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have >frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the >other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg > I like most everything about Southwest except the fact that they don’t do seat > assignments.  You have a mad rush (or long line) at the counter to get your > numbered boarding pass and then another mad rush to get on the plane and find > a decent seat. > I don’t quite understand how this could save the airline money.  Is the cost > of advance seat assignment really that high? > — > Steve

It’s not a matter of "the cost of advance seat assignment really that high."  It’s just one feature that takes extra time for the reservations agents and airport personnel.  Southwest is a low cost carrier and that’s just one feature that would add personnel time, thus increasing their overhead.  It’s interesting to note though, that Southwest does provide personnel to check baggage claim tickets on arrival. Continental discontinued that nearly two years ago.  I complained about it in writing to the President and I received a phone call from his office from a very pleasant woman saying that CO decided to eliminate this service to keep down costs.  So it’s just a trade off.  For those of us who frequently fly Southwest, the no seat assignment policy is just no big deal.  The other benefits of the airline, IMO, outweigh it.

Response:

Southwest is: (1) Always the price leader with low fares.  They should be rewarded for this.   (2) REASONABLE TO DEAL WITH.  Their customer service people will work with you to solve problems.  I have, by contrast, encountered problems with America West personnel, as well as their partner Continental.   (3) On time honest service.  They keep their fares and their service simple.   (4) It has a very new fleet of airplanes, making it, I believe, safer.   They are, far and away, my favorite airline.   Robert Rudnitsky (note: I have no connection to SW; I am just a satisfied customer).  

Response:

>We (who live on the east coast) will be flying between Phoenix and Albuquerque >(rountrip) in March.  Southwest and (to a lesser extent) America West have >frequent service on this route.  Is there anything to recommend one over the >other?  I’ve never flown on either carrier.  Thanks. Greg

I fly between PHX-ABQ several times a month and prefer Southwest. The seat pitch (knee room) on America West is actually smaller than Southwest, although the flight is only 50 minutes, so anything is tolerable. America West has cancelled flights at least twice in the last month, and all their passengers have had to troup over to Southwest. This has turned a comfortable Southwest flight into a full one, but that’s life. I think America West does advanced seat assignments. Southwest boards in groups of 30 with open seating.

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