Air Travel

Question:

> And just as a note,  BA are currently trying to recruit 1000 cabin crew > this year.  They are looking for people with at least one language at > conversation level and some customer service experience.

I would expect that most people would have one language at conversation level. — +1 908 957 2070     |  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824 "Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will."  -Martin Luther King

Response:

> > And just as a note,  BA are currently trying to recruit 1000 cabin crew > this year.  They are looking for people with at least one language at > conversation level and some customer service experience. > I would expect that most people would have one language at conversation > level.

ANNA, who evidently doesn’t  ;) Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

Response:

> > > In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the > > term FA used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d > > be interested to know if any other countries use a non-gender > > term as a title of address for cabin crew. > I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation > of ‘flight attendant’. > "attendente di volo" sull’Alitalia… > "personnel navigant de cabine" sur Air France

Thanks for adding these.  My question was if other airlines use non-gender specific *titles of address*.  Both titles sound suspiciously like the job description (like the difference between pilot and Captain), rather than a title of address.  Would it be correct to call someone ‘Personnel navigant de cabine Warman’ as a direct replacement for the commonly used British title ‘Stewardess Warman’ or the North American ‘Flight Attendant Warman’? Another interesting point, whenever I used to fly to Canada, I used to make a cabin address in French as well as English and I seem to recall using the term: " l’equipage " for crew – has this gone out of fashion? ANNA Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

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One of my friend’s wife was flying from ORD to MSY on UA.  She had an E-ticket and when she checked in was told that her ticket had been cancelled by the credit card company.  A quick call to the credit card company denied this. However, UA initially going to let her board unless she bought a full fare ticket, a $400 difference. As the plane was boarding, she finally got a UA manager involved, and they sold her a ticket at her original price. All she has is a conformation number with an E-tkt, her husband says he will not utilize the E-tkt again.  Where he works has had similar problems and they will not use E-tickets. Sounds to me that the system needs some work! Wayne

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: Arcahic it may seem to you, but the term is still in use in the UK.  All : BA cabin crew have the rank Steward/Stewardess until they are promoted to : Purser after around 10 years.  As far as I know, this title is used by : all UK carriers.  I would suspect that many of the Far Eastern airlines : still use this nomenclature too, hence its mention in the article. : In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA : used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to : know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address : for cabin crew. I guess I’ve lived in NA for too long(UK native), gender neutral language seems to be the norm here, at least in the corporate world. It would be interesting to see what responses you get regarding gender neutral terms. Rich. — —

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> Official French words: (HORRORS! they actually use, eeeuuuwww, > English words!): > hotess de l’air

"hotesse de l’air" (with a little hat over the o) means "air hostess" and is perfectly good French. — Stefano Pagiola 850 N Randolph Str No.817, Arlington VA 22203, USA All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer

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[snip some interesting info] > BTW, You used the term cabin crew which I often use.  My personal > observation is this term is seldom used in the US.

I’ve noticed that too.  Cabin crew is the standard term for the job title (like pilot) in Britain.  AFAIK, every UK carrier uses the term (I think British Caledonian were the last to use the term ‘Air Hostess’ and they were bought out by BA in 1988). That said, for the average person in the street in Britain, who doesn’t fly often, Air Hostess is still a commonly used term.  :)  Also, as far as I can tell (and this is different to the US), the job of cabin crew is still seen as glamourous by most British people.  This is in part, I think, due to the fact that European airlines don’t, as a rule, operate a bidding for work system based on seniority.  The newsest cabin crew in BA could find themselves going straight onto the 747 fleet and their first trip to somewhere as exotic as Hong Kong.  :) The fact the proportionally, probably fewer Brits than Amercicans have flown, and therefore don’t realise how hard the job is, may also have something to do with this perception.  :) And just as a note,  BA are currently trying to recruit 1000 cabin crew this year.  They are looking for people with at least one language at conversation level and some customer service experience.  Applicants must have a European Community passport, if anyone here knows anyone who’d be interested.  The age limit, I think, is 49.  Details should be available on BA’s website on http://www.british-airways.com ANNA Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

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>Arcahic it may seem to you, but the term is still in use in the UK.  All >BA cabin crew have the rank Steward/Stewardess until they are promoted to >Purser after around 10 years.  As far as I know, this title is used by >all UK carriers.  I would suspect that many of the Far Eastern airlines >still use this nomenclature too, hence its mention in the article.

Air hostesses are commonly used, too. >In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA >used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to >know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address >for cabin crew.

I believe Cathay Pacific uses the title "purser" for all its cabin attendants.  I believe the head purser is called the Chief Purser. The literal translations of the equivalent Chinese terms are "Mr. [in the] Air" and "Miss [in the] Air" (and married women still maintain the "Miss Air" title  ;-) ).  Even though they’re not non-gender terms, they’re much more dignifying than "attendants", IMHO. BTW, You used the term cabin crew which I often use.  My personal observation is this term is seldom used in the US.

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For flight attendant names, I like the following Spanish usages: Sobrecargo (in charge of the cargo) Aeromozo (air-boy) Aeromoza (air-girl) Official French words: (HORRORS! they actually use, eeeuuuwww, English words!): hotess de l’air steward Portuguese: commissario de bordo But I, personally, just call myself and my co-workers "stews". Maybe not politically correct, but I think it follows the (unwritten) rule of the minority tacitly permitted to call themselves derogatory terms. (i.e. blacks calling each other/themselves ‘nigger’) Lars Kindem III Miami Beach, FL LIFE: Sexually transmitted; Always fatal

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> In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA > used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to > know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address > for cabin crew.

I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation of ‘flight attendant’. > ANNA > Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

– Juergen Stockburger                     (213) 740-9337 phone USC Chem. Dept., SSC 717                (213) 740-8348 fax

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA > used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to > know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address > for cabin crew. > I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation > of ‘flight attendant’. > ANNA > Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm > — > Juergen Stockburger                     (213) 740-9337 phone > USC Chem. Dept., SSC 717                (213) 740-8348 fax

"attendente di volo" sull’Alitalia… "personnel navigant de cabine" sur Air France EAO

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> I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation > of ‘flight attendant’.

Hmm yes, but wouldn’t that become ‘Flugbegleiterin’ for women? Geraldine http://www.etoile.demon.co.uk/       | "Ever feel like the hedgehog

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> > In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA > used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to > know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address > for cabin crew. > I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation > of ‘flight attendant’.

Thanks for the comment, Juergen.  :)  So, as a term of address, it would be correct to call me Flugbegleiter Warman? ANNA Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

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> > I think Lufthansa uses ‘Flugbegleiter’ as a German-language adaptation > of ‘flight attendant’. > Thanks for the comment, Juergen.  :)  So, as a term of address, it would > be correct to call me Flugbegleiter Warman?

Well, no, sort of… ‘Flugbegleiter’ is actually not gender neutral, it just sounds more like it. (Geraldine Calcutt pointed out my booboo was made just to mimick the changes in North America, and to give flight attendants a new professional image. Depending on how PC your environment is, though, you still get away with using its plural ‘Flugbegleiter’ to include both genders. You, Anna, should be called a ‘Flugbegleiterin’. But ‘Flugbegleiterin Warman’ just sounds awkward as and address – as if you were in the military. But you could begin a cabin announcement with ‘Guten Tag, meine Damen und Herren, hier spricht Ihre Flugbegleiterin Anna Warman…’ or something the like. Now if you’re confused, that’s a normal symptom of anyone getting involved with the German language after the age of three -J:)rgen — Juergen Stockburger                     (213) 740-9337 phone USC Chem. Dept., SSC 717                (213) 740-8348 fax

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>: I gather that China Airlines carries that route. On this issue, I would also >: like to make the comment that the passenger involved must be a super bitch >: of some kind. I can imagine that this woman throwing a real fuss in the quiet >: business class cabin despite reasonable apologies and assistance after the >: spill. The degree of disturbance to the whole cabin and the demands by >: this passenger might have pushed the cabin stewardess into this "quick" >: solution. I feels sorry for the cabin staffs who had to deal with >: this japanese traveller whose name I would like to see in the press and >: have her banned from future air travels! >I think the use of the word "stewardess" was unwarranted, since >the gender of the chief flight attendant was not indicated. I also believe that >term is archaic and most people use "flight Attendant" instead.

Point taken totally agreed with usually. However, I was writing specifically in relation to the printed report of the incident which used the term "stewardess". I would normally have used the abbreviation "FA" if it weren’t for that. Thanks for pointing out.

Response:

> >I think the use of the word "stewardess" was unwarranted, since >the gender of the chief flight attendant was not indicated. I also believe >that term is archaic and most people use "flight Attendant" instead. > Point taken totally agreed with usually. However, I was writing specifically > in relation to the printed report of the incident which used the term > "stewardess". I would normally have used the abbreviation "FA" if it > weren’t for that. > Thanks for pointing out.

Arcahic it may seem to you, but the term is still in use in the UK.  All BA cabin crew have the rank Steward/Stewardess until they are promoted to Purser after around 10 years.  As far as I know, this title is used by all UK carriers.  I would suspect that many of the Far Eastern airlines still use this nomenclature too, hence its mention in the article. In fact, outside of North America, I don’t think I’ve heard the term FA used, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.  :)  I’d be interested to know if any other countries use a non-gender term as a title of address for cabin crew. ANNA Visit my in-flight safety page – http://www.plsys.co.uk/~anna/inflight.htm

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> This sounds a lot like an urban legend.  In other words, a story that > sounds true but most likely is a ficticious farce.  I can’t beleive this > happening on any airline anywhere on the planet.

The article appeared in Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post. Follow this link to read it: http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid=199701040059070… emplate=FrontPage.htx

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The following article made the front page on January 4, 1997 > in Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post > Attendant finds the drinks are on her > JASON BLATT in Taipei > A Taiwanese stewardess was in hot water after she upset a business class > passenger on a flight from Honolulu to Tokyo. According to newspapers in > Taiwan, she was forced to remove her apron and kneel beside the passenger > while the angry Japanese woman poured four glasses of water and fruit > juice over her. The "humiliation", ordered by the chief cabin attendant on > the flight, came after the stewardess had accidentally spilt a drink on > the passenger during turbulence. She was apparently told she had to endure > the ordeal because it was a flight attendant’s duty to serve the customer.

I got some more details about this incidence.  The chief cabin attendant is a Japanese.  The stewardess first apologized by bowing (Chinese way). Later, she was ordered to kneel/squat so that she’s below the customer’s eye level.  This is the Japanese way.  In fact, I believe that’s how Japan Airlines, All Nippon, and Taiwan’s EVA Air train their flight attendants to serve their passengers (EVA’s cabin crew was one time trained by All Nippon), i.e., always serve a seated passenger by kneeling or squating. According to the airline, the chief cabin attendant did not order the humiliation.  It was the angry customer who rushed to the galley and poured juice on the stewardess.  However, a passenger who sat behind the Japanese lady came forward and supported the stewardess’s story.

Response:

: I gather that China Airlines carries that route. On this issue, I would also : like to make the comment that the passenger involved must be a super bitch : of some kind. I can imagine that this woman throwing a real fuss in the quiet : business class cabin despite reasonable apologies and assistance after the : spill. The degree of disturbance to the whole cabin and the demands by : this passenger might have pushed the cabin stewardess into this "quick" : solution. I feels sorry for the cabin staffs who had to deal with : this japanese traveller whose name I would like to see in the press and : have her banned from future air travels! I think the use of the word "stewardess" was unwarranted, since the gender of the chief flight attendant was not indicated. I also believe that term is archaic and most people use "flight Attendant" instead. IMHO — —

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>I would like to know which airline employs chief cabin attendants who >order that a stewardess be "humiliated". The way in which this matter was >handled is absolutely unacceptable and the chief cabin attendant should be >fired for such conduct. Natural mishaps like these tend to happen because >of turbulence. Afterall, it is an aircraft and not a garden terrace. >Does anybody know which airlines operate the Honolulu-Tokyo-Taipei route? >For it must be known which airline gives way to abusive behaviour from >passengers like these, so that one can choose a more appropriate airline.

Only Taiwan’s China Airlines flies this route.  (A remote possibility would be United or Northwest, but I doubt they have same-plane service between HNL and TPE via TYO.)  Before EVA Air was founded, China Airlines was known for rude services.  I’m quite shocked that they would go the other extreme to please their passengers.  I do agree that the punishment was severe and the offended passenger was unreasonable.  Nevertheless, I don’t feel strongly about this incidence (at least not towards the airline).  Let’s wait and see how the airline reacts. Last year, a China Airlines female flight attendant accused a senior captain for sexually harrassing her in a hotel.  The captain was promptly fired after an investigation.

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This sounds a lot like an urban legend.  In other words, a story that sounds true but most likely is a ficticious farce.  I can’t beleive this happening on any airline anywhere on the planet.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The following article made the front page on January 4, 1997 >in Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post >Attendant finds the drinks are on her >JASON BLATT in Taipei >A Taiwanese stewardess was in hot water after she upset a business class >passenger on a flight from Honolulu to Tokyo. According to newspapers in >Taiwan, she was forced to remove her apron and kneel beside the passenger >while the angry Japanese woman poured four glasses of water and fruit >juice over her. The "humiliation", ordered by the chief cabin attendant on >the flight, came after the stewardess had accidentally spilt a drink on >the passenger during turbulence. She was apparently told she had to endure >the ordeal because it was a flight attendant’s duty to serve the customer. >She is now seeking an apology from the airline for her treatment during >last month’s incident, Taiwan’s United Evening News reported yesterday. >The bitter customer had insisted on the dramatic punishment even after the >flight attendant had knelt at her side, apologising, for more than two >hours. The report did not specify which airline the Taiwanese woman worked >for. The incident occurred as the aircraft was making its way to Tokyo >from Honolulu, Hawaii, the report said. The flight continued on to Taipei >from Tokyo. [End of article] >I would like to know which airline employs chief cabin attendants who >order that a stewardess be "humiliated". The way in which this matter was >handled is absolutely unacceptable and the chief cabin attendant should be >fired for such conduct. Natural mishaps like these tend to happen because >of turbulence. Afterall, it is an aircraft and not a garden terrace. >Does anybody know which airlines operate the Honolulu-Tokyo-Taipei route? >For it must be known which airline gives way to abusive behaviour from >passengers like these, so that one can choose a more appropriate airline.

I gather that China Airlines carries that route. On this issue, I would also like to make the comment that the passenger involved must be a super bitch of some kind. I can imagine that this woman throwing a real fuss in the quiet business class cabin despite reasonable apologies and assistance after the spill. The degree of disturbance to the whole cabin and the demands by this passenger might have pushed the cabin stewardess into this "quick" solution. I feels sorry for the cabin staffs who had to deal with this japanese traveller whose name I would like to see in the press and have her banned from future air travels!

Response:

What airline please? I missed the early part of the string – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > According to newspapers in >:>Taiwan, she was forced to remove her apron and kneel beside the passenger >:>while the angry Japanese woman poured four glasses of water and fruit >:>juice over her. The "humiliation", ordered by the chief cabin attendant on >:>the flight, came after the stewardess had accidentally spilt a drink on >:>the passenger during turbulence. She was apparently told she had to endure >:>the ordeal because it was a flight attendant’s duty to serve the customer. >If this kind of shit happened on *my* flight, as a passenger, I would have >stood and defended the flight attendant to the bitter end. >What would the next punishment be? 40 lashes ?? >I am surprised the other passengers did not intervene. Thank goodness this >sort of thing doesn’t/can’t happen on U.S. airlines. >Choose your airline carefully. >Lars Kindem III >Miami Beach, FL >LIFE: Sexually transmitted; Always fatal

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 According to newspapers in :>Taiwan, she was forced to remove her apron and kneel beside the passenger :>while the angry Japanese woman poured four glasses of water and fruit :>juice over her. The "humiliation", ordered by the chief cabin attendant on :>the flight, came after the stewardess had accidentally spilt a drink on :>the passenger during turbulence. She was apparently told she had to endure :>the ordeal because it was a flight attendant’s duty to serve the customer. If this kind of shit happened on *my* flight, as a passenger, I would have stood and defended the flight attendant to the bitter end. What would the next punishment be? 40 lashes ?? I am surprised the other passengers did not intervene. Thank goodness this sort of thing doesn’t/can’t happen on U.S. airlines. Choose your airline carefully. Lars Kindem III Miami Beach, FL LIFE: Sexually transmitted; Always fatal

Response:

The following article made the front page on January 4, 1997 in Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post Attendant finds the drinks are on her JASON BLATT in Taipei A Taiwanese stewardess was in hot water after she upset a business class passenger on a flight from Honolulu to Tokyo. According to newspapers in Taiwan, she was forced to remove her apron and kneel beside the passenger while the angry Japanese woman poured four glasses of water and fruit juice over her. The "humiliation", ordered by the chief cabin attendant on the flight, came after the stewardess had accidentally spilt a drink on the passenger during turbulence. She was apparently told she had to endure the ordeal because it was a flight attendant’s duty to serve the customer. She is now seeking an apology from the airline for her treatment during last month’s incident, Taiwan’s United Evening News reported yesterday. The bitter customer had insisted on the dramatic punishment even after the flight attendant had knelt at her side, apologising, for more than two hours. The report did not specify which airline the Taiwanese woman worked for. The incident occurred as the aircraft was making its way to Tokyo from Honolulu, Hawaii, the report said. The flight continued on to Taipei from Tokyo. [End of article] I would like to know which airline employs chief cabin attendants who order that a stewardess be "humiliated". The way in which this matter was handled is absolutely unacceptable and the chief cabin attendant should be fired for such conduct. Natural mishaps like these tend to happen because of turbulence. Afterall, it is an aircraft and not a garden terrace. Does anybody know which airlines operate the Honolulu-Tokyo-Taipei route? For it must be known which airline gives way to abusive behaviour from passengers like these, so that one can choose a more appropriate airline. This page can also be found at http://www.iohk.com/UserPages/svenvdm/humiliation.html

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