Air Travel

Question:

On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription marijuana that he was legally allowed to have. Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks notified DL. The passenger in question said he plans to sue Delta. The reporter said the pax had a "serious illness" but did not elaborate. I can not find a news wire story on this incident but will post if (or if someone in r.t.a. sees one, please post). How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did. Yes, I realise that there is a debate in the Supreme Court this week over "medical marijuana" but that is not what I am referring to here. Was DL right or wrong in it’s action?

Response:

If he was allowed to legally have it, which im sure is probably debatable itself, then the airline shouldnt have kicked him off the plane.  If I were him in the first place, I would have had my Rx out there in the first place, proving that I was allowed to have it.

On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription marijuana that he was legally allowed to have. Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks notified DL. The passenger in question said he plans to sue Delta. The reporter said the pax had a "serious illness" but did not elaborate. I can not find a news wire story on this incident but will post if (or if someone in r.t.a. sees one, please post). How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did. Yes, I realise that there is a debate in the Supreme Court this week over "medical marijuana" but that is not what I am referring to here. Was DL right or wrong in it’s action?

Response:

:>On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in :>Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription :>marijuana that he was legally allowed to have. A man was booted off a flight for having a legally prescribed drug?? :>Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks :>notified DL. I wonder why. Do they notify the airlines about all prescription drugs? :>The passenger in question said he plans to sue Delta. The reporter said :>the pax had a "serious illness" but did not elaborate. I can not find a :>news wire story on this incident but will post if (or if someone in :>r.t.a. sees one, please post). Probably Glaucoma. :>How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia :>Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young :>people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did. What about nitro for people with heart problems? :>Yes, I realise that there is a debate in the Supreme Court this week :>over "medical marijuana" but that is not what I am referring to here. :>Was DL right or wrong in it’s action? Completely wrong. — http://www.dissensoftware.com

Response:

> If he was allowed to legally have it, which im sure is probably debatable > itself, then the airline shouldnt have kicked him off the plane.  If I were > him in the first place, I would have had my Rx out there in the first place, > proving that I was allowed to have it.

What does "allowed to legally have it" mean ? Did he have a prescription? I thought doctors were barred by Federal law from prescribing marijuana.  Isn’t that how the Feds got around the California referendum permitting the use of medicinal marijuana ?? I believe  the Supreme Court is debating this right now. Jay

Response:

> On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in > Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription > marijuana that he was legally allowed to have.

[snip] > Yes, I realise that there is a debate in the Supreme Court this week > over "medical marijuana" but that is not what I am referring to here.

If he had a prescription, that’s exactly what you’re referring to here. > Was DL right or wrong in it’s action?

If Delta wishes to refuse to carry legally possessed substances, that’s its prerogative.  However, I suspect this was an action taken out of ignorance and desire for coverage rather than such a policy, and I don’t feel it reflects particularly well on them. Deborah Stevenson

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[posted and mailed] 127.iap.bryant.webtv.net>: >Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks >notified DL.

There is no conceivable airline security interest in looking for marijuana. They were out of line. >How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia >Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young >people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did.

Delta’s platform is also the prevention of drug use? PS Is there a bathing suit competition?

Response:

> On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in > Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription > marijuana that he was legally allowed to have. > How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia > Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young > people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did.

  Since you want to prevent drug use, do I understand you that you (1) don’t want me as well as millions of others with hypertension not to use drugs that lower our blood pressure. or you (2) don’t want people to use aspirin when they have a headache?  Or is that you (3) don’t want people to use illegal drugs?  Or is that you (4) don’t want people to abuse drugs?  I pretty sure that you don’t mean (1) and (2).  You probably mean (4) and maybe (3).  What is your problem using a drug? > Yes, I realise that there is a debate in the Supreme Court this week > over "medical marijuana" but that is not what I am referring to here. > Was DL right or wrong in it’s action?

DL are not the police.  Unless the person was smoking it in the airport or the plane they should have left it alone. dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in > Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription > marijuana that he was legally allowed to have. > Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks > notified DL. > The passenger in question said he plans to sue Delta. The reporter said > the pax had a "serious illness" but did not elaborate. I can not find a > news wire story on this incident but will post if (or if someone in > r.t.a. sees one, please post). > How do you fell about this? One of my platforms as Ms. Georgia > Achievement 2000 is prevention of drug use (especially among our young > people) and I commend DL for taking the stand it did.

You commend DL for throwing a seriously ill passenger off the plane because he was carrying a LEGAL prescription drug?  Would you feel differently if he had incurable chronic pain and was carrying LEGAL prescription morphine or Demerol?  Or is it just pot that sticks in your craw?   And, what on earth makes you think that there is any connection between throwing this man off the plane for his legal medical marijuana and preventing drug abuse in kids?

Response:

> On the 11PM news last night, there was a story about how a guy in > Washington, D.C. was booted off a DL flight due to his prescription > marijuana that he was legally allowed to have.

Is medically prescribed marijuana legal in DC?? > Apparently the stuff showed up in the security screen and those folks > notified DL.

How does MJ look in a security screen?? Michael

Response:

> You commend DL for throwing a seriously ill passenger off the plane > because he was carrying a LEGAL prescription drug?  Would you feel > differently if he had incurable chronic pain and was carrying LEGAL > prescription morphine or Demerol?  Or is it just pot that sticks in your > craw?

Can marijuana be legally prescribed in DC? This is where this happened. As far as I know the Federal government still says it illegal. I know it is permitted by California law, and that is the Supreme Court issue, but what about DC law??

Response:

Was this a safety issue?  I doubt it.  Why does this fall into the category of prerogatives?  If Delta wishes to deny boarding to women from IL, is that also acceptable?  If he had a prescription, it is none of Delta’s business.  If he tries to smoke it on the plane, they can discipline him according to existing anti-smoking laws. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Was DL right or wrong in it’s action? > If Delta wishes to refuse to carry legally possessed substances, that’s > its prerogative.  However, I suspect this was an action taken out of > ignorance and desire for coverage rather than such a policy, and I don’t > feel it reflects particularly well on them.

Response:

If it is illegal in Washington, DC to carry pot, then they could refuse him Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Was this a safety issue?  I doubt it.  Why does this fall into the category > of prerogatives?  If Delta wishes to deny boarding to women from IL, > is that also acceptable?  If he had a prescription, it is none of Delta’s > business.  If he tries to smoke it on the plane, they can discipline him > according to existing anti-smoking laws. > Paul > > Was DL right or wrong in it’s action? > If Delta wishes to refuse to carry legally possessed substances, that’s > its prerogative.  However, I suspect this was an action taken out of > ignorance and desire for coverage rather than such a policy, and I don’t > feel it reflects particularly well on them.

Response:

There are __no__ (zero) airports in DC.  IAD and DCA are in Virginia. I should imagine that the airlines are also aware of Federal laws, which are pretty specific about this product – as you will notice in today’s news.   Much of DCA was originally in DC, but the "where is the border" problem resulted in redrawing the boundary on the river’s current shore line, not the pre-airport shoreline.  The Maryland-Virginia border is at the Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, and this arrangement was carried on when the part of the original DC on the VA side of the river was given back to VA.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You commend DL for throwing a seriously ill passenger off the plane > because he was carrying a LEGAL prescription drug?  Would you feel > differently if he had incurable chronic pain and was carrying LEGAL > prescription morphine or Demerol?  Or is it just pot that sticks in your > craw? > Can marijuana be legally prescribed in DC? This is where this happened. > As far as I know the Federal government still says it illegal. > I know it is permitted by California law, and that is the Supreme Court > issue, but what about DC law??

Response:

As far as I know, marijuana, unfortunately, for all the people who may need it for serious illnesses, is still an illegal drug in the US.  Even if he got his prescription in California,  I think it could still be declared illegal if found upon him. So for that reason, I feel Delta was within their rights to do what they did but I do not agree that this should have had to happen to that man if he really needed the drug for a "medical" reason.  The US needs to rethink their policies on medications and drugs which can help many suffering people in this day and age.   Many foreign countries allow drugs for illnesses which are illegal in the US.   Does Delta also check "everyone’s" prescriptions to see if they are legal or not?  I think not!  Why signal out marijuana?  IMO, the only case this man might have for a lawsuit against Delta is that they took him off the plane but maybe many others were on there  with illegal prescriptions and they did not get taken off the plane.   I would be interested also in learning more about this story if anyone can share addtional info.   Mary

Response:

So, are you saying that there are VA police in the airport? And.. is MJ legal in VA, even for medicinal purposes? I don’t think so. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There are __no__ (zero) airports in DC.  IAD and DCA are in Virginia. > I should imagine that the airlines are also aware of Federal laws, which > are pretty specific about this product – as you will notice in today’s > news. > Much of DCA was originally in DC, but the "where is the border" problem > resulted in redrawing the boundary on the river’s current shore line, > not the pre-airport shoreline.  The Maryland-Virginia border is at the > Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, and this arrangement was carried on > when the part of the original DC on the VA side of the river was given > back to VA. > > You commend DL for throwing a seriously ill passenger off the plane > > because he was carrying a LEGAL prescription drug?  Would you feel > > differently if he had incurable chronic pain and was carrying LEGAL > > prescription morphine or Demerol?  Or is it just pot that sticks in your > > craw? > Can marijuana be legally prescribed in DC? This is where this happened. > As far as I know the Federal government still says it illegal. > I know it is permitted by California law, and that is the Supreme Court > issue, but what about DC law??

Response:

> Many foreign countries allow drugs for illnesses which are illegal in > the US.   Does Delta also check "everyone’s" prescriptions to see if > they are legal or not?  I think not!  Why signal out marijuana?  IMO, > the only case this man might have for a lawsuit against Delta is that > they took him off the plane but maybe many others were on there  with > illegal prescriptions and they did not get taken off the plane.  

If he was carrying a illegal drug, suing Delta isn’t going to work. Illegal drug users are not a protected class like old people and the handicapped. Even if he did, Delta had no knoweledge whether other pax were carrying illegal drugs, just him. I would assume that if they knew other pax were carrying illegal drugs, they would have taken the same action. Michael

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> Was DL right or wrong in it’s action?

Not taking any stand pro or con on any aspect of marijuana issue (not sure I *have* a stand). But airline security checks ought to be all about the security and safety of the plane and passengers, and *nothing* else — especially not any other issues having no remote connection to safety and security issues. Airlines and airports are in the air travel business, not the law enforcement business.  The security checks are for safety and security of the associated flights.  They shouldn’t be expanded into any kind of generalized law enforcement checking stations having a broader law enforcement mandate, any more than we’d let "stop and frisk’ law enforcement stations be set up at, say, gas stations or department store changing rooms. And as a minor point, the personnel involved are hardly trained or licensed law enforcement personnel.

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> > Was DL right or wrong in it’s action? > Not taking any stand pro or con on any aspect of marijuana issue (not > sure I *have* a stand). > But airline security checks ought to be all about the security and > safety of the plane and passengers, and *nothing* else — especially not > any other issues having no remote connection to safety and security > issues.

So, law violations are no big deal. You are suggesting that nothing should be done if a pile of child porn falls out of a bag going through security or other illegal substances be ignored?  While it may not be the job of airport security to report such things, it is NOT beyond the conscience or responsibility of individuals to report such things. Michael

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> Is medically prescribed marijuana legal in DC??

Interesting. What if the drug was legally acquired under prescription in a state such as California where it is legal, and the person then travelled to another state ? Does the law prohibit the purchase/sale of drugs, its possession or its use ? If the amount of drug is such that it is clearly for personal use as per the prescription, then you can rule out trafiquing. What happens when someone boards a flight in Kalifornia with his legal prescription drugs. Does he get thrown out of the plane as soon as the plane crosses the state border ? At the first landing point ? Personally, I do not see why the airline would be involved. It should have been airport police that would have decided whether to detain the traveller or not.

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               >Airlines and airports are in the air                >travel business, not the law                >enforcement business. I have two words to counteract the above statement: Whitney Houston. Anyone remember when Whitney almost got popped at the Kona (Hawaii) airport when security found some pot in her carry on? She was sufficiently worried about the situation to *leave the bag there instead of taking it with her* and she skedaddled onto that United flight back to Los Angeles.   It IS a part of security, replace "illegal substances" with the words "incendiary device" or "bomb" and see how quickly you change your stance!

Response:

> Was this a safety issue?  I doubt it.  Why does this fall into the category > of prerogatives?  If Delta wishes to deny boarding to women from IL, > is that also acceptable?  

Denying boarding to one sex would, I believe, be illegal.  However, all kinds of things preclude people from one state, and as long as a business is keeping within the law they can preclude what they want. Look, you’re missing my point.  Delta’s action was stupid and craven, and I think so is the U.S. policy on medical marijuana.  But if Delta decides that I can’t fly them with any of the controlled substances I have prescriptions for, that’s their prerogative.  They should also make it clear somewhere in their policies that this is an item they forbid me to put on the plane up front, so it’s merely a stupid and obnoxious policy rather than a panicked reaction, as this seemed to be. > If he had a prescription, it is none of Delta’s > business.  

It’s Delta’s business within the law to determine what gets carried onto their planes, and they already have some restrictions.  I think they could set themselves up so this was crummy but not sleazy.  They didn’t. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

<snip> >It IS a part of security, replace "illegal substances" with the words >"incendiary device" or "bomb" and see how quickly you change your >stance!

I think we’ve hit a new low in logical argumentation. What the hell are you talking about? The problem is not one of choice of WORDS! OF COURSE, if you replace the discovered ITEM, an amount of marijuana, with some other THING, say a bomb, then of course you have a security issue. But, gee, they didn’t find a bomb — they found pot. So what is the relevance of your comment???

Response:

> It IS a part of security, replace "illegal substances" with the words > "incendiary device" or "bomb" and see how quickly you change your > stance!

That’s the point.  Bombs threaten the security of an airplane.  Pot doesn’t.  Porn doesn’t.  Sexual devices don’t.  Resold dubbed videos of movies don’t.  All of these things are of varying degrees of legality in these United States, but none of them are security issues.  It has to be more than illegal to be a danger to a plane. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

>> Was DL right or wrong in it’s action? >If Delta wishes to refuse to carry legally possessed substance

That’s the question, was it "legal" to possess it? ——- Scott

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> That’s the point.  Bombs threaten the security of an airplane.  Pot > doesn’t.  Porn doesn’t.  Sexual devices don’t.  Resold dubbed videos of > movies don’t.  All of these things are of varying degrees of legality in > these United States, but none of them are security issues.  It has to be > more than illegal to be a danger to a plane.

What if we consider the possibility that pot, if burnt either intentionally or in an accident, might cause a loss of judgment among passengers due to its mind-altering effects? In other words, plane goes down, in an otherwise-survivable accident (e.g. UA DC-10 in Iowa or Singapore Airlines 747 in Taipei) and pot goes aflame, causing the passengers nearby to become even more disoriented and reducing their ability to survive a crash. I remember something in the contract of carriage about noxious substances or other dangerous substances…. RB

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