Air Travel

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights > >from North America > >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. > >(At least any > >time I’ve flown them) > Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you?  Last I checked Seoul was > in (South) *Korea*, so wouldn’t it make sense for *Korean Air* to fly > through their headquarters/main hub at Seoul, which happens to be largest > city and capital of (South) *Korea*?  If you want to fly Japan Airlines or > All Nippon Airways, would you complain that "all flights from North America > seem to route through Tokyo or Osaka before continuing on to other > destinations"?  Or how about China Airlines via Taipei? >Thanks for the geography lesson. Save it for someone who needs it. >I never said it didn’t make sense, I just said I didn’t  *like* it. >I was expressing *an opinion*. >What I should have stated is that for me personally, living in Tokyo, >Korean Air is a tad inconvenient because when I fly from North >America, I have to fly to Seoul first, spend 3-4 hours on the ground >there, and then fly for 2 hours back in the direction I’d just come in. >Ditto going back the other way.   >Thus, the reason Korean is my least preferred for my purposes is not >because of service, or alleged safety problems, but because of >the above.

Mihir wasn’t the only one who misinterpreted your post.  So you may want to a bit more explicit next time.  Furthermore, KE does have one daily flight between LAX and Tokyo.  Thus, your reasoning is somewhat flawed. Anyway, KE does appeal to many budget travellers between the US and Japan because of its lower fares.

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as if it was written: >Hey, why not just fly United! All their 767s have SONY video systems and seats >with wings, plus, IMHO, better interiors, service, etc. than American.

Been there, done that.  While I might agree with you compared with AA’s old B767s, N380AA knocks the socks off UA, in my opinion. Malc.

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>I did some assignments for a Korean man and one of the discussions >we >had was regarding air travel. He used the KAL service out of Hartsfield >frequently and his main complaint was that the flight went to Chicago >first to pick up more passengers rather than it being a direct flight to >Seoul!

Minor nit…the KAL flight from Atlanta to Seoul with a stop in Chicago IS a direct flight!  It’s not a non-stop flight, but it is direct since there is no change of planes at Chicago (not that thread again!  :-) ). Besides, would that man rather have taken another airline that would have certainly required him to change planes instead?  In other words, that KAL ATL-ORD-SEL flight is the most convenient I can think of, as there are no non-stop ATL-SEL flights on any airline; DL just started non-stop ATL-NRT flights, and with the Asian economic meltdown, airlines are actually cutting non-stops to Seoul from the U.S., even the West Coast.  It would be like me complaining that the Air-India flight from Chicago to Bombay stops in London; this is ridiculous since there are obviously no non-stops from Chicago to Bombay (and if there were it would easily be the longest non-stop flight in the world since the route is over 8000 miles).

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>> >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights > >from North America > >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other

        ^^^^^^ > Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you? >Thanks for the geography lesson. Save it for someone who needs it. >I never said it didn’t make sense, I just said I didn’t  *like* it. >I was expressing *an opinion*.

Sorry for mis-interpreting you…if you hadn’t used the word "seem", as emphasized above, then I probably wouldn’t have bothered replying.  In other words, the word "seem" sort of implied to me that you were "wondering" about "why" Korean Air would route through Seoul.  Amazing how one little word can throw things off… The rest of your last reply made a lot of sense, after your clarification; I agree that living in Tokyo makes Korean Air inconvenient for going to the U.S. since you are require to backtrack somewhat by going via Tokyo. However, unless things have changed, Korean Air does have at least one flight from Korea to the U.S. which stops in Tokyo, but of course this is only one small exception.

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> What the f**k are you talking about???  Mihir has been posting to the > group much longer than you probably have had been on internet.  Until > I see anything intelligent from you, I’d say you’re the troll. > Rich

This was from the same guy who shot down my post about Newfoundland having 3 1/2 hours difference with the U.K. It shows how much he knows of the world… He should continue lurking for a while before posting again, methinks! Normand

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>> What the f**k are you talking about???  Mihir has been posting to the > group much longer than you probably have had been on internet.  Until > I see anything intelligent from you, I’d say you’re the troll. >This was from the same guy who shot down my post about Newfoundland >having 3 1/2 hours difference with the U.K. >It shows how much he knows of the world… He should continue lurking >for a while before posting again, methinks!

"martin" has been treating us all to his somewhat extreme, and poorly written, views for a while now on alt.travel.uk.air.  He is something in the British travel industry, but apparently not a travel agent.   >Normand

Malc.

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Hey, why not just fly United! All their 767s have SONY video systems and seats with wings, plus, IMHO, better interiors, service, etc. than American.

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I did some assignments for a Korean man and one of the discussions we had was regarding air travel. He used the KAL service out of Hartsfield frequently and his main complaint was that the flight went to Chicago first to pick up more passengers rather than it being a direct flight to Seoul!                   >Korean Air Service.     Maryanne.

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> Hey, why not just fly United! All their 767s have SONY video systems and seats > with wings, plus, IMHO, better interiors, service, etc. than American.

And this has WHAT to do with Korean Air Service?  Focus, people. Richard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >from North America >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >(At least any >time I’ve flown them) > Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you?  Last I checked Seoul was > in (South) *Korea*, so wouldn’t it make sense for *Korean Air* to fly > through their headquarters/main hub at Seoul, which happens to be largest > city and capital of (South) *Korea*?  If you want to fly Japan Airlines or > All Nippon Airways, would you complain that "all flights from North America > seem to route through Tokyo or Osaka before continuing on to other > destinations"?  Or how about China Airlines via Taipei?

Thanks for the geography lesson. Save it for someone who needs it. I never said it didn’t make sense, I just said I didn’t  *like* it. I was expressing *an opinion*. What I should have stated is that for me personally, living in Tokyo, Korean Air is a tad inconvenient because when I fly from North America, I have to fly to Seoul first, spend 3-4 hours on the ground there, and then fly for 2 hours back in the direction I’d just come in. Ditto going back the other way.   Thus, the reason Korean is my least preferred for my purposes is not because of service, or alleged safety problems, but because of the above.

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appear as if it was written: >I don’t understand why everyone raves about SQ. If you are flying economy, >it’s no big deal in my opinion. >Service is a very subjective thing.  However, flying SQ economy does have >one advantage that very, very few airlines have—their interactive >inflight entertainment system.  (Note, interactive in the sense that you >can choose anything that’s available but it’s not audio/video on demand, >the latter is available on SQ’s business and first class.)

I flew on an AA flight ten days ago, JFK-SFO.  The aircraft was a B767-300, tail N380AA. It’s worth switching flights to find this puppy… This has AA’s new IFE system installed, which is based on the same Matsushita system that SQ uses, with personal screens in front of every seat (except FC, of course, where the screens are in the arm rests).  They also have coach seats with leather, adjustable headrests, interactive games, Airshow, etc.   The only weirdness was that the Airshow maps for a domestic Transcon used the North Atlantic view, with JFK approximately in the center, SFO on the left, and Greenland on the right.  It was a bit odd that AA didn’t have better maps of the continental USA! I’m told that only N380AA in the B767 fleet has the system at the moment, while eight of AA’s Airbus A300’s have it, too. Malc.

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> >       [...all KE flights seem to go through SEL...] > Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you?    If you want to fly Japan Airlines or > All Nippon Airways, would you complain that "all flights from North America > seem to route through Tokyo or Osaka before continuing on to other > destinations"?  Or how about China Airlines via Taipei?

        Well, I’ve flown Air Wisconsin from Denver to Santa Barbara, and I’ve flown Aspen Mountain Air from Denver to Sioux City, and I didn’t have to go through Wisconsin or Aspen!  Why should Korean Air have to go through Korea?  And I flew Trans World Airlines from Denver to St. Louis, but I didn’t have to go across the world to get there!  C’mon!! Just Kidding.  And I haven’t flown ZW or AD, either.         Stephen

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>> >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights > >from North America > >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. > >(At least any > >time I’ve flown them)

A troller if by anyones standards. and attached to a uni at that to! martin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >> >from North America >> >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >> >(At least any >> >time I’ve flown them) >A troller if by anyones standards. >and attached to a uni at that to! >martin

Why don’t you learn how to read newsgroup posts if you’re going to throw little tantrums about them for the world to see? (You might also take a remedial writing course while you’re at it.)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >> >from North America >> >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >> >(At least any >> >time I’ve flown them) > A troller if by anyones standards. > and attached to a uni at that to! > martin

What the f**k are you talking about???  Mihir has been posting to the group much longer than you probably have had been on internet.  Until I see anything intelligent from you, I’d say you’re the troll. Rich

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >from North America >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >(At least any >time I’ve flown them) > Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you?  Last I checked Seoul was > in (South) *Korea*, so wouldn’t it make sense for *Korean Air* to fly > through their headquarters/main hub at Seoul, which happens to be largest > city and capital of (South) *Korea*?  If you want to fly Japan Airlines or > All Nippon Airways, would you complain that "all flights from North America > seem to route through Tokyo or Osaka before continuing on to other > destinations"?  Or how about China Airlines via Taipei?

Now, now.  Logic has no place on this newsgroup, you understand.

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>I don’t understand why everyone raves about SQ. If you are flying economy, >it’s no >big deal in my opinion.

Service is a very subjective thing.  However, flying SQ economy does have one advantage that very, very few airlines have—their interactive inflight entertainment system.  (Note, interactive in the sense that you can choose anything that’s available but it’s not audio/video on demand, the latter is available on SQ’s business and first class.) >Korean is not that bad. I’ve flown them many times and at least seat pitch in >economy seems to be better than that on United or Northwest. >Again, it’s only my opinion, but I found Korean service to be comparable to >other carriers flying trans pacific (including Singapore) (Bad SQ flight >maybe

"Quality control" on service/human interaction is a lot harder than quality control on hardware.  Thus, I don’t think one will always get good service even on reputable carriers like SQ, Swissair, Cathay, etc. >The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >from North America >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >(At least any >time I’ve flown them)

What do you expect?  After all, they are Korean Air.  If they don’t fly through Seoul, where do they fly?  The only exception is one daily flight to Tokyo from LAX which will continue onto Seoul.  Rights to flying through a third country is very hard to come by.  You will need approval from two other foreign countries (in this case, Japan and the US) to fly the route.  This is called "Fifth Freedom" traffic, or beyond rights.  Many civil aviation wars were sparked by fifth freedom traffic.

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>The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights >from North America >seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. >(At least any >time I’ve flown them)

Ummm…and this somehow doesn’t make sense to you?  Last I checked Seoul was in (South) *Korea*, so wouldn’t it make sense for *Korean Air* to fly through their headquarters/main hub at Seoul, which happens to be largest city and capital of (South) *Korea*?  If you want to fly Japan Airlines or All Nippon Airways, would you complain that "all flights from North America seem to route through Tokyo or Osaka before continuing on to other destinations"?  Or how about China Airlines via Taipei?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ravin– > KE is not SQ, or even TG. > However, most people don’t choose KE for their inflight service, or for > any particular claim they have for safety. Travelers choose KE because > it’s often the cheapest ticket to be had. > Remember, if it’s any consolation: their coach seats are the same as > those used by most other B747 operators, and their meals are catered (at > least out of LAX and BKK) by reputable food service companies. And it’s > cheap! > As a matter of interest, did you compare TG’s and SQ’s fares to BKK > against KE’s?  There’s alot of discounting going on right now, so your > savings with KE may not be all that much. > Tim Winship > Editor > The Frequent Flyer Crier > "Your weekly guide to travel, frequent flyer programs, and the Internet" > Subscribe at http://theffpsite.org > I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. > Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am > apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would > appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

I don’t understand why everyone raves about SQ. If you are flying economy, it’s no big deal in my opinion. Korean is not that bad. I’ve flown them many times and at least seat pitch in economy seems to be better than that on United or Northwest. Again, it’s only my opinion, but I found Korean service to be comparable to other carriers flying trans pacific (including Singapore) (Bad SQ flight maybe The only thing I don’t like about flying with them is that all flights from North America seem to route through Seoul before continuing on to other destinations. (At least any time I’ve flown them)

Response:

Probably the WN on trans-pacific air travel.  Don’t expect anything exciting at all on this flight.  Why not fly Thai, Cathay or JAL for this flight??? Rich > Steer clear!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. >Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am >apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would >appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

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Steer clear! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. >Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am >apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would >appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

Response:

Ravin– KE is not SQ, or even TG. However, most people don’t choose KE for their inflight service, or for any particular claim they have for safety. Travelers choose KE because it’s often the cheapest ticket to be had. Remember, if it’s any consolation: their coach seats are the same as those used by most other B747 operators, and their meals are catered (at least out of LAX and BKK) by reputable food service companies. And it’s cheap! As a matter of interest, did you compare TG’s and SQ’s fares to BKK against KE’s?  There’s alot of discounting going on right now, so your savings with KE may not be all that much. Tim Winship Editor The Frequent Flyer Crier "Your weekly guide to travel, frequent flyer programs, and the Internet" Subscribe at http://theffpsite.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. > Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am > apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would > appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

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I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

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>I am planning to fly from LAX to Bangkok via Korean Air for the first time. >Having to flown the Pacific only on Singapore and Thai before, I am >apprehensive because of reports of poor service and safety issues. I would >appreciate any feedback on the quality of Korean Air coach service. Thanks!

If you are apprehensive as you state, and have already flown SQ/TG then why fly KE ??   martin

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