Air Travel » Air Travel Flight » followup: my complaint to Northwest
Question:
(Kraig R. Meyer) writes: >[Quoting a letter from Northwest]: >Although the pilot is still the manager of the airplane in either >case, I would like to clarify that both the 757 and A-320 aircraft are >managed by computer. > Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a > supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues > of the A-320 cockpit. > It’s quite possible that Northwest legitimately disagrees with you > about the safety of the A320–which is certainly not the same thing as > being "ignorant".
I suspect this is the case. There was an article a couple of months ago in Conde Naste Traveller which stated that Northwest Pilots did in fact like the A320 and that in general most pilots who have flown the A320 like it a lot. Unfortunately, I still find the 757 a more comfortable plane to fly in. Does anyone know the seating capacity of the A320 versus the 757. My gut feel might be that the A320 was lower which might explain why they were using A320s. — Rick Kovalcik (Richard Kovalcik, Jr.) Senior Consulting Engineer, Technical Support, Stratus Computer, Inc. VOICE: 1-508-460-2206 USMAIL: Mail Stop M23TL3, 55 Fairbanks Blvd., Marlboro, MA 01752
Response:
|> |> >[Quoting a letter from Northwest]: |> >Although the pilot is still the manager of the airplane in either |> >case, I would like to clarify that both the 757 and A-320 aircraft are |> >managed by computer. |> |> > Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a |> > supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues |> > of the A-320 cockpit. |> |> It’s quite possible that Northwest legitimately disagrees with you |> about the safety of the A320–which is certainly not the same thing as |> being "ignorant". What’s even more likely is that they wrongly assumed |> that you were a non-technical person who had read about "Dangerous |> computer driven airplanes" in Reader’s Digest or something. I think Helen’s right. Equating the 757 and the A320 as both "managed by computer" is simply wrong—there’s a big difference between fly-by-wire and computer navigation or flight management software. Either the supervisor doesn’t know the difference, or they think they can pull the wool over the public’s eyes. RNA
Response:
>[Quoting a letter from Northwest]: >Although the pilot is still the manager of the airplane in either >case, I would like to clarify that both the 757 and A-320 aircraft are >managed by computer.
> Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a > supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues > of the A-320 cockpit.
It’s quite possible that Northwest legitimately disagrees with you about the safety of the A320–which is certainly not the same thing as being "ignorant". What’s even more likely is that they wrongly assumed that you were a non-technical person who had read about "Dangerous computer driven airplanes" in Reader’s Digest or something. Of course, it is still far more dangerous to drive a car to the airport than to get on an A320. My coworkers who avoid A320s seem to have no problem getting into a car and driving on an interstate freeway, which is a far more dangerous activity (by a factor of 10 or 100 or something like that). | The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily | | represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA. | | |
Response:
While the A320 has had three major accidents, I for one am curious why the recent 747-400 accident in Hong Kong, for instance, does not get the same amount of coverage as A320 accidents…. the Warsaw aquaplaning took place in very bad weather, much like the Hong Kong crash… I have flown the A320 many times, on Lufthansa, British Airways, Northwest, and Indian Airlines, and have never had a flight delayed the way described below… I would think the paranoia over "A320 = Problems = Delayed Flights" is much too simplistic… This is not an attempt to flame, but to try to get a more even perspective on such issues…. -Sanjiv. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I got a response! While I was in Monterey last week Northwest wrote me >back! >Here’s the text of their letter: >October 26, 1993 >Ms. Helen Rose >(my address deleted) >Dear Ms Rose: >Thank you for writing about our non-stop service between Boston and >Seattle/Tacoma. >Ms. Rose, I regret your disappointment regarding our choice of >aircraft, particularly in light of the fact that the A-320 fleet has >achieved the second highest dispatch reliability in our fleet. >Although the pilot is still the manager of the airplane in either >case, I would like to clarify that both the 757 and A-320 aircraft are >managed by computer. >Thank you, again, for sharing your views. I hope that you will allow >us the privilege of serving your future travel needs. >Sincerely, >(name deleted) >Supervisor, Customer Relations >My comments: >Considering NW’s fleet consists of: 747-200s, 747-400s, 727-200s, >DC-9s (10s, 15s, 30s, 50s), MD-80s, 757s, A-320s, and DC-10s. >Is the rest of their fleet that decrepit that the the A320 has the >second highest fleet dispatch reliability? Note that they didn’t >mention where the 757 was. My bet is first 
>And both aircraft are controlled by computer? They are sorely mistaken >about the differences! >Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a >supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues >of the A-320 cockpit. >My original complaint is included here: >To Whom It May Concern: >I have been a loyal Northwest customer for more than four years. My >husband has been a loyal Northwest customer for almost eight years. We >have both accumulated large amounts of mileage under your frequent flyer >plan, and have even qualified for Northwest WorldPerks Preferred Status. >My husband’s parents live near Seattle, Washington. We were ecstatic to >find that you had started a Boston-Seattle non-stop flight as of last May, >and especially happy that the equipment on the flight was a Boeing 757-251, >an aircraft we consider one of the best airliners available. >We subscribe to the OAG online travel service, and have found out that your >equipment on the Boston-Seattle nonstop has changed from a Boeing 757-251 >to an Airbus A320-200. >We believe that there are vast problems with the A320’s cockpit interface, >which have been major contributing factors, if not *the* major contributing >factors, in three crashes (so far). As computing professionals, relying on >computers for such simple things as toilet flushing as well as such >sophisticated things as flight and engine control systems makes us wince. >We work with computers every day and feel that, with current hardware and >software technology, computers are not yet of a standard to be relied upon >for every single judgement. >More than once we have walked through Northwest hubs and seen A320 flights >marked as "DELAYED". On one occasion, we were on a flight from Detroit to >Boston, which was scheduled to leave about two hours later than an A320 >flight; *even though* our flight was delayed for several hours by >mechanical problems, it still arrived in Boston *before the A320 flight had >taken off*. >Obviously the A320’s systems are not reliable enough to prevent shutdowns >on the ground — so who’s to say they wouldn’t shut down in the air? >Due to what we consider a drastic reduction in safety which prevents us >from considering the Boston-Seattle nonstop, we will be taking our future >air travel with another airline. (We note that the Boeing 757, like the >A320 a relatively new, narrow-body twinjet, has had no crashes since its >debut, while the A320 has had 3 in far less time.) >– >Kapor Enterprises, Inc. Flames to: >I like: DL, WN, Boeing I don’t like: NW, HP, Airbus
Response:
: I got a response! While I was in Monterey last week Northwest wrote me : back! : Is the rest of their fleet that decrepit that the the A320 has the : second highest fleet dispatch reliability? Note that they didn’t : mention where the 757 was. My bet is first : And both aircraft are controlled by computer? They are sorely mistaken : about the differences! : Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a : supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues : of the A-320 cockpit. CALL HIM! CALL HIM DIRECT, now that you have a name. NW was advertising some program called World-something. Basically, it entails adding personal videos to their long haul flights. I wanted to know if any of their flights to Tokyo would have this installed before my trip last year to Asia. I called and the guy was happy to tell me about the service and when it would start. –Ken
Response:
I got a response! While I was in Monterey last week Northwest wrote me back! Here’s the text of their letter: October 26, 1993 Ms. Helen Rose (my address deleted) Dear Ms Rose: Thank you for writing about our non-stop service between Boston and Seattle/Tacoma. Ms. Rose, I regret your disappointment regarding our choice of aircraft, particularly in light of the fact that the A-320 fleet has achieved the second highest dispatch reliability in our fleet. Although the pilot is still the manager of the airplane in either case, I would like to clarify that both the 757 and A-320 aircraft are managed by computer. Thank you, again, for sharing your views. I hope that you will allow us the privilege of serving your future travel needs. Sincerely, (name deleted) Supervisor, Customer Relations My comments: Considering NW’s fleet consists of: 747-200s, 747-400s, 727-200s, DC-9s (10s, 15s, 30s, 50s), MD-80s, 757s, A-320s, and DC-10s. Is the rest of their fleet that decrepit that the the A320 has the second highest fleet dispatch reliability? Note that they didn’t mention where the 757 was. My bet is first And both aircraft are controlled by computer? They are sorely mistaken about the differences! Either this supervisor is ignorant (a bad thing to be when you’re a supervisor), or NW management is deluding themselves about the issues of the A-320 cockpit. My original complaint is included here: To Whom It May Concern: I have been a loyal Northwest customer for more than four years. My husband has been a loyal Northwest customer for almost eight years. We have both accumulated large amounts of mileage under your frequent flyer plan, and have even qualified for Northwest WorldPerks Preferred Status. My husband’s parents live near Seattle, Washington. We were ecstatic to find that you had started a Boston-Seattle non-stop flight as of last May, and especially happy that the equipment on the flight was a Boeing 757-251, an aircraft we consider one of the best airliners available. We subscribe to the OAG online travel service, and have found out that your equipment on the Boston-Seattle nonstop has changed from a Boeing 757-251 to an Airbus A320-200. We believe that there are vast problems with the A320’s cockpit interface, which have been major contributing factors, if not *the* major contributing factors, in three crashes (so far). As computing professionals, relying on computers for such simple things as toilet flushing as well as such sophisticated things as flight and engine control systems makes us wince. We work with computers every day and feel that, with current hardware and software technology, computers are not yet of a standard to be relied upon for every single judgement. More than once we have walked through Northwest hubs and seen A320 flights marked as "DELAYED". On one occasion, we were on a flight from Detroit to Boston, which was scheduled to leave about two hours later than an A320 flight; *even though* our flight was delayed for several hours by mechanical problems, it still arrived in Boston *before the A320 flight had taken off*. Obviously the A320’s systems are not reliable enough to prevent shutdowns on the ground — so who’s to say they wouldn’t shut down in the air? Due to what we consider a drastic reduction in safety which prevents us from considering the Boston-Seattle nonstop, we will be taking our future air travel with another airline. (We note that the Boeing 757, like the A320 a relatively new, narrow-body twinjet, has had no crashes since its debut, while the A320 has had 3 in far less time.) — Kapor Enterprises, Inc. Flames to: I like: DL, WN, Boeing I don’t like: NW, HP, Airbus
no comment untill now