Air Travel

Question:

(Geoff Miller) writes: >Airhitch Online Staff writes: > "Stewardess" applies, virtually exclusively, to an airline hostess. >Um, could that perhaps be because there was no need for the term >prior to the advent of commercial air travel?  And because of >tradition in what’s left of commercial sea travel?  

Um, regardless of *why* it was, it was. So what??? Nothing you have said here detracts from our argument, which is, that the original poster was simply incorrect in maintaining that the two terms "steward" and "stewardess" are equivalent, differentiated only by gender, and that the masculine form of the word is in fact much broader in its semantic scope. >We still use he terms "steamroller" and "steamshovel," too.

And what does *this* illustrate??? The discussion here is about words and gender, and the argument is about gender semantic equivalence. We don’t see what "steamroller" and "steamshovel" have to do with gender, good examples though they may be of semantically anachronistic usage. >Semantics is only part of the picture; you also need to take tradition,

habit, and other forms of lexical inertia into account. > As everyone knows, for the first X years of the modern commercial > aviation industry, this job-role was exclusively the domain of > women [...] >That doesn’t render the masculine form of the word inappropriate >for denoting males with the same job.  

Not inappropriate; just WRONG. "Steward" means MUCH MORE than "stewardess", regardless of the reasons this is the case. >In fact, I believe I read somewhere that BOAC used to refer to its male cabin >staff as stewards. Maybe BA still does; I have no idea.

Bottom-of-the-barrel scratching. If *ONLY* BA *MAYBE* uses it, it’s clear that this usage is not anywhere NEAR a universally-adopted part of the language. It is, if in fact it even IS in current usage, not English, but "BAspeak" — a highly-limited subset of English. > "Steward" has a much broader meaning, denoting a generic kind of > custodianship, which is a concept related to ownership, and IS > ALMOST NEVER USED to denote specifically anything to do with > airplanes, and particularly NOT the modern masculine equivalent > of a female "stewardess" — a guy on an airplane who is willing > to work for next to nothing as a waiter. >That’s a red herring.  As you said, most cabin staff were female >for the first X years of commercial air travel.  Because of that, >there was no _need_ for "steward" to denote specifically anything >to do with airplanes — but that’s not to say the term would’ve been >inaccurate or inappropriate.

And no one is saying it WAS inappropriate or inaccurate; it’s just that "flight-attendant" — as a description of a job role equally applicable to both sexes — is MORE appropriate and accurate, because more precise. It is NOT mere PCbabble, against which we will be the first to rail. >According to the American Heritage Dictionary I have at hand, the >word "steward" has four definitions, one of which is similar to >yours above.  However, another one is "an attendant, esp. a male, >on a ship or airplane."

And here, you will be horrified to realize, you are AGREEING with us — and our contention that "steward" is a BROADER term than "stewardess." For how many dictionary definitions did you find for "stewardess" (You forgot to say.)? >Sorry, "stewardesses" they are and "stewardesses" they shall remain.

Only for you, sir — and others who wish, for whatever reasons, to speak and write with less rather than more precision in their denotations. Let us hope that is not the majority. And, in fact, so far, in this particular linguistic case, it has not been. Does anyone know how the term "flight-attendant" first appeared on the scene? Let’s write a column for Bill Safire and send it to him.

Response:

(Lani Teshima-Miller) writes: >> It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!!   >Oh, no it isn’t. > [...] >Of course, there are some who cite the lack of an equivalent masculine >term as evidence that "stewardess" is somehow sexist.  (Why this would >be evidence of sexism is, revealingly, never explained.)  But there   _is_ >an equivalent masculine term: "steward." > I suppose I should’ve gotten a "Spinster of Arts" degree and a > "Mistress of Library & Information Studies" degree too, eh?

I think this thread belongs in alt.sex.etymology. M Carling

Response:

>My vote goes to SQ and CX !! >Regards, >Largo

Another wise choice that I cannot argue with!! skhin

Response:

>> It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!!   >Oh, no it isn’t. [...] >Of course, there are some who cite the lack of an equivalent masculine >term as evidence that "stewardess" is somehow sexist.  (Why this would >be evidence of sexism is, revealingly, never explained.)  But there _is_ >an equivalent masculine term: "steward."

I suppose I should’ve gotten a "Spinster of Arts" degree and a "Mistress of Library & Information Studies" degree too, eh? — UH School of Library & Info Studies. "Whatever the cost of our   o|<0_0>——* libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant      =^-| |_| | nation." -Walter Cronkite     [RABbit FAQ Maintainer: "Think Ink!"]    _B}_B}

Response:

>> Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to Delta. >Japan Air Lines.

I’ll second that! The ones I’ve seen working the HNL route are knock-outs!! (Part of it has to do with the fact that the job still has a lot of prestige in Japan, so you not only get handsome applicants–they are also well-educated and very smart, and are the creme de la creme!) — UH School of Library & Info Studies. "Whatever the cost of our   o|<0_0>——* libraries, the price is cheap compared to that of an ignorant      =^-| |_| | nation." -Walter Cronkite     [RABbit FAQ Maintainer: "Think Ink!"]    _B}_B}

Response:

>>       Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta. >– >     Singapore Airlines is the best! >Chris

I couldn’t agree with you more.  You, guys who have not seen nor experience, take my word. skhin

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The folks who serve food and clean cabins on US Government vessels are called "stewards". These are civil service positions in the US Maritime Administration.

Response:

>(Geoff Miller) writes: >But there _is_ an equivalent masculine term: "steward."

    Earlier days of commercial aviation did have a steward aboard.     Later the powers-that-be said there had to be a registered nurse in attendance.  Therefore, with economy in mind, it was decreed those female registered nurses also had to be the maids.     Hence, ergo, Stewardess — whose primary duty is cabin SAFETY, not T&A.

Response:

>Airhitch Online Staff writes: > "Stewardess" applies, virtually exclusively, to an airline hostess.

The post started out very simple; re: best looking stewardesses.  We all know what that means.  Let’s forget all this politically correct stuff and stick to the post at hand.  Singapore Airlines is hard to beat with their strict regulations regarding the appearances of their flight attendants.   Fred J. Wagner

Response:

>"Stewardess" applies, virtually exclusively, to an airline hostess. >As everyone knows, for the first X years of the modern commercial aviation >industry, this job-role was exclusively the domain of women — possibly         >because young, unattached women of modest means, starstruck by the apparent >glamour of jet-setting around the world in the company of handsome and somewhat >eligible male cockpit crew, were willing to work for next to nothing >as airborne waitresses.

Without commenting on the broader issue, let’s just note that this paragraph includes a couple errors and/or anachronisms. Eastern Airlines had stewards from the get-go, because Captain Eddie Rickenbacker liked it that way.  Other airlines also employed males. Using the term "jet-set" is also silly, since steward(esses) preceded the jet-age. Noting the source of this misinformation, I am not surprised.  AirItch are a bunch of losers, whose venality and corruption have been fully revealed in this newsgroup before.  I wouldn’t trust AirItch to post a letter, let alone get a human being from one side of the ocean to the other. RNA

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Airhitch Online Staff writes: > "Stewardess" applies, virtually exclusively, to an airline hostess.

Um, could that perhaps be because there was no need for the term prior to the advent of commercial air travel?  And because of tradition in what’s left of commercial sea travel?  We still use the terms "steamroller" and "steamshovel," too. Semantics is only part of the picture; you also need to take tradition, habit, and other forms of lexical inertia into account. > As everyone knows, for the first X years of the modern commercial > aviation industry, this job-role was exclusively the domain of > women [...]

That doesn’t render the masculine form of the word inappropriate for denoting males with the same job.  In fact, I believe I read somewhere that BOAC used to refer to its male cabin staff as stewards. Maybe BA still does; I have no idea. > "Steward" has a much broader meaning, denoting a generic kind of > custodianship, which is a concept related to ownership, and IS > ALMOST NEVER USED to denote specifically anything to do with > airplanes, and particularly NOT the modern masculine equivalent > of a female "stewardess" — a guy on an airplane who is willing > to work for next to nothing as a waiter.

That’s a red herring.  As you said, most cabin staff were female for the first X years of commercial air travel.  Because of that, there was no _need_ for "steward" to denote specifically anything to do with airplanes — but that’s not to say the term would’ve been inaccurate or inappropriate. According to the American Heritage Dictionary I have at hand, the word "steward" has four definitions, one of which is similar to yours above.  However, another one is "an attendant, esp. a male, on a ship or airplane." Sorry, "stewardesses" they are and "stewardesses" they shall remain. Geoff Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +             Sun Microsystems

Response:

Best looking: Air India cause they come from the country with the most beautiful women (1994 Miss Universe, Miss World winners). Worst looking: Pakistan Inter. Airline  (Please inform Allah) Though how could you tell with them wearing tents and only the eyes are visible. If you reply to this message, your message WILL be *automatically* anonymized and you are allocated an anon id. Read the help file to prevent this.

Response:

>> It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!! >Oh, no it isn’t. >This is a fine example of how silly this PC stuff can be…

GEOFF, WHOA DUDE!  I WAS ONLY KIDDING WITH YOU !!!!   ARE YOU A LITTLE SENSITIVE ABOUT THIS WHOLE "PC" THING?  CHILL,  I’M ON YOUR SIDE.  I MUST ADMIT I DID FORGET TO USE THE " "  EMOTICON SO I GUESS I DESERVED THAT. THORNTON

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(Geoff Miller) writes: >But there _is_ an equivalent masculine term: "steward." >Geoff

Sorry, but this is simply incorrect. "Steward" is NOT the masculine equivalent of "stewardess." Perhaps originally, back in the etymologically pure days of its use (oh, circa 1850, when the steamship era was just taking off and the airplane did not yet exist), it was; but no longer. Try looking both words up in the dictionary, as well as listening to how your fellow speakers of English commonly use them, and you’ll see how really different they are. "Stewardess" applies, virtually exclusively, to an airline hostess. As everyone knows, for the first X years of the modern commercial aviation industry, this job-role was exclusively the domain of women — possibly         because young, unattached women of modest means, starstruck by the apparent glamour of jet-setting around the world in the company of handsome and somewhat eligible male cockpit crew, were willing to work for next to nothing as airborne waitresses. "Steward" has a much broader meaning, denoting a generic kind of custodianship, which is a concept related to ownership, and IS ALMOST NEVER USED to denote specifically anything to do with airplanes, and particularly NOT the modern masculine equivalent of a female "stewardess" — a guy on an airplane who is willing to work for next to nothing as a waiter. Words don’t always work logically — and especially so when gender is involved.

Response:

> It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!!  

Oh, no it isn’t. This is a fine example of how silly this PC stuff can be, and how uncritical lockstep orthodoxy is the only reason it propagates the way it does. The only reason a change in the job title would be justifiable would be if the job itself had changed — and it hasn’t.  Besides, there’s nothing at all demeaning about the term "stewardess." Of course, there are some who cite the lack of an equivalent masculine term as evidence that "stewardess" is somehow sexist.  (Why this would be evidence of sexism is, revealingly, never explained.)  But there _is_ an equivalent masculine term: "steward." Geoff Geoff Miller                       + + + + + +      My Opinions, Not Those Of

Response:

My vote goes to SQ and CX !! Regards, Largo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->        Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to > Delta. > Japan Air Lines. > — > "And this is all I have to say about that…" – F. Gump >                                     `o<’ >    __    __  __  __  __  _  _    __   U  __  _ __ _ >   /__  (  )(  )(  )(  )( ( )  (  )    /__( (  ) )        This message is >  /(__)  )(__ () /  )(  )  (    )(__  /(__)  / /     brought to you from > (__)(__)(____)__/  (__)(_)_)  (____)(__)(__)//      Motaba River Valley

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: It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!! Perhaps in the US, but overseas, its still stewardess…. Actually, Gulf Air is quite nice… those proper Brits wearing veils…. Not at all what I expected to see at all (a nice surprise!) — |  Eric Olesen         |  Airline Historical Archives is now the Website    | |  Fort Worth, Tx      |  NEW URL http://www.metronet.com/~olesen/aha.html  | |    "Views expressed here do not represent the airline that I work for!    |

Response:

>       Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta.

Steve, suggest you put on your asbestos underwear.  Flight Attendant is the acceptable PC term these days.  Don’t fear the flames son, say what you think!  :-) Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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>     Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to > Delta.

Japan Air Lines. — "And this is all I have to say about that…" – F. Gump                                     `o<’    __    __  __  __  __  _  _    __   U  __  _ __ _   /__  (  )(  )(  )(  )( ( )  (  )    /__( (  ) )        This message is  /(__)  )(__ () /  )(  )  (    )(__  /(__)  / /     brought to you from (__)(__)(____)__/  (__)(_)_)  (____)(__)(__)//      Motaba River Valley

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simko) writes: >    Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta. >–

     Singapore Airlines is the best! Chris

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Southwest has some tasty ones — young and firm.

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>    Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta. >–Singapore Airlines by far. They all have to fit in to one size uniform!

Fred J. Wagner

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        Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to Delta. —

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>        Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta. >–

worst looking, TWA!

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>    Which airline has the best looking Stewardesses? My vote goes to >Delta. >–

Steve, It’s FLIGHT ATTENDANTS now!!!!!!  As for the best looking, I’d have to say the "SINGAPORE GIRL" takes the cake but Thai International’s attendants aren’t far behind.. Thornton

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