Air Travel

Question:

‘Nuff Said, Joel

Response:

>Greg Lyon writes: >   I believe Lake Union Air Service does on flights from Seattle to Victoria, >BC.  I don’t know what type of aircraft they use, however. >Lake Union Air Service went under sometime last year.  I remember reading >about it.  I’m not too sure anyone’s picked up the service from Lake Union >(a real lake in Seattle).  I’m pretty sure Kenmore air leaves from Kenmore.

  Well, that’s what happens when you "live" in Seattle while going to school in St. Louis.     Actually, I won’t be living in Seattle anymore anyway… I’ll be working and living in STL after graduation in 22 days. Greg — Greg Lyon                                        Student Union Attorney General Member – Washington University College Bowl Team — 1993 Region 11 Champions !!

Response:

A few days ago, I wrote > Here’s a quiz for the initiated.  Can you name a US airline that   > flies single-engine, piston-engined, floatplane aircraft on > SCHEDULED INTERNATIONAL routes?  Bonus points if you can > identify the aircraft and route.

Gregory Scott Vernon (who works for Boeing in the Seattle area) got   the right answer with: > Kenmore Air flies from Seattle(actually Kenmore, which is actually > part of Bothell (sort of)) to Victoria, British Columbia.

Greg Lyon (who also lives in the Seattle area… hhmmm… should they   be disqualified?) suggests Lake Union.  This was in fact the airline   I had in mind, but my most recent OAG shows Kenmore now flying on the   Lake Union, Seattle, to Victoria, British Columbia, route.  I hope   this doesn’t mean Lake Union’s gone under. Lake Union used to fly a floatplace DHC-2 Beaver on the route at   off-peak times, with a floatplane DHC-6 Twin Otter at peak times.   OAG shows all Kenmore flights operating with Beavers. Ciao, Stefano — Stefano Pagiola Food Research Institute, Stanford University

Response:

>>Here’s a quiz for the initiated.  Can you name a US airline that   >flies single-engine, piston-engined, floatplane aircraft on SCHEDULED   >INTERNATIONAL routes?  Bonus points if you can identify the aircraft   >and route. Greg Lyon writes: >   I believe Lake Union Air Service does on flights from Seattle to Victoria, >BC.  I don’t know what type of aircraft they use, however. >Greg Greg Vernon writes: (wait! that’s me!)

Lake Union Air Service went under sometime last year.  I remember reading about it.  I’m not too sure anyone’s picked up the service from Lake Union (a real lake in Seattle).  I’m pretty sure Kenmore air leaves from Kenmore. — Greg Vernon  Boeing Materials Technology               |  An Earth is a              AT&T:     (206)234-3865                   |  to waste. Disclaimer: My opinions are not necessarily the same as Boeing’s

Response:

>Evan Leibovitch writes > …. stretch DC-8s > (double yecch), >DC-8s.. "double yech"????!?  Heresy!

You didn’t see the cattle cars that Nationair turned them into. —  Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario Suicide is illegal in 22 states. What would they do, give you the death penalty?

Response:

OK, let’s put this one to rest. Source: Canadian Airlines Schedule, dated Oct 25, 1992 (Called "The Guide to Civilized Air Travel", it also includes city maps and info for most places it serves, seating layouts in all planes, etc.) Canadian Airlines "proper" does not use any propeller aircraft. Even its flights to Yellowknife are 737s. There are a number of Canadian "partner" airlines that operate as regional feeders (not very different from American Eagle). With these small regionals, the jets are the exceptions, I think the only one in the list below is the BA 146. The DH3 listed in Canadian’s schedule refers to the de Havilland DH8-300 ("Dash 8"), as distinct from DH8, the conventional Dash 8 (the -300 seats 50, the -100 seats 37). There are no DC3s listed anywhere, but you can fly a little old Beechcraft on a few of the more obscure runs. The following regional airlines are the partners of Canadian Airlines, independently owned (obviously their fleets don’t have much in common , but use Canadian’s reservation system and colour schemes, participate in Canadian’s frequent flyer program, and often share ground crew at the hubs: Air Atlantic: eastern Canada plus Montreal and Boston    de Havilland Dash 8-100    British Aerospace 146 Inter-Canadien (once known as Quebecair): Quebec and Ottawa    ATR 42    de Havilland Otter    Swerigan (sp?) Metroliner    Piper Navajo Canadian Partner aka Ontario Express: Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec, northeast US    EMB 120 Brazilia    Beech 1900    British Aerospace Jetstream 31    de Havilland Dash 8-100 Calm Air: Manitoba and NWT    de Havilland Twin Ottar    Hawker Siddley 748    Unspecified Beech (probably King Air) Time Air: Prairies, BC, and the north    de Havilland Dash 8-300    de Havilland Dash 8-100    Fokker F28    British Aerospace Jetstream 31    Shorts 360    Beech C99 —  Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario Suicide is illegal in 22 states. What would they do, give you the death penalty?

Response:

>Here’s a quiz for the initiated.  Can you name a US airline that   >flies single-engine, piston-engined, floatplane aircraft on SCHEDULED   >INTERNATIONAL routes?  Bonus points if you can identify the aircraft   >and route.

Kenmore Air flies from Seattle(actually Kenmore, which is actually part of Bothell (sort of)) to Victoria, British Columbia.  Don’t know what plane, though. — Greg Vernon  Boeing Materials Technology               |  An Earth is a              AT&T:     (206)234-3865                   |  to waste. Disclaimer: My opinions are not necessarily the same as Boeing’s

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have flown Air Transat twice from Montreal to Paris and had no problems with >their service.  Once was an L1011 and the other times was an AB310.  The >flights were full of groups (I was with groups), and the service was much >better then the average charter.  They also fly to North Africa I believe. >he price is great- go for it! >Air Transat is expanding, and is expected to absorb many of the >employees, aircraft and routes abandoned when Nationair stopped >operations. >This means they may now be using a number of Nationair’s 757s (yecch). >I don’t know if they’ll be getting any of Nationair’s stretch DC-8s >(double yecch), which were still in service last year when I checked. >I hope not. >– > Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario >Suicide is illegal in 22 states. What would they do, give you the death penalty?

I know that Air Transat had a couple of 757’s on order as they are expanding their Canada –> UK operation somewhat for Summer 1993. Alan — "The Lord your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great   // delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you" /

Response:

>Here’s a quiz for the initiated.  Can you name a US airline that   >flies single-engine, piston-engined, floatplane aircraft on SCHEDULED   >INTERNATIONAL routes?  Bonus points if you can identify the aircraft   >and route.

   I believe Lake Union Air Service does on flights from Seattle to Victoria, BC.  I don’t know what type of aircraft they use, however. Greg — Greg Lyon                                        Student Union Attorney General Member – Washington University College Bowl Team — 1993 Region 11 Champions !!

Response:

Talking about 1945 prop planes … I read a few weeks ago on the sunday NY Times that there is a company that flies a DC3 from Orlando to Key West. The aircraft is restored to the "original" look and the flight attendants wear uniforms from the period (40’s I guess) and distribute, during the flight, copy of magazines of that period. I want to try it myself very soon. If you are interested check the sunday NYTs of the last 3-4 weeks (Sorry but I can’t remember precisely which one) Regards, -andrea

Response:

Howard Lem writes >> … I think one of Canadian Airlines "partner" >> airlines in Northern Canada has a regularly scheduled flight >> using an DC-3 > I seriously doubt this story, perchance you saw DH3 in the > listing that Canadi>n uses to identify DeHavilland Dash 8-300. > It is a prop plane. > Nope, The airline is not Canadian. It’s one of the small > regional airlines that has allied itself with Canadian. > Of Course, this was two years ago. > It was listed as DC3 not DH3, the other aircraft used on the > route was more modern.  I sort of got the impression that the > DC3 flight probably carried more cargo than passengers, since > it took 5 – 6 hours longer than the other flight.

Just some corrections: A DH3 is a De Havilland DHC-3 Otter, which is   a single-engine piston aircraft with a high wing.  The Dash 8 (a twin   turbo-prop) is listed as DH8 in the schedules. There are in fact many airlines that fly DHC-2 Beavers, DHC-3 Otters,   DC-3s, and miscellaneous other antiques to hunting and fishing lodges   in Northern Canada during the summer.  I don’t know if any do so on a   `scheduled’ basis.   Here’s a quiz for the initiated.  Can you name a US airline that   flies single-engine, piston-engined, floatplane aircraft on SCHEDULED   INTERNATIONAL routes?  Bonus points if you can identify the aircraft   and route. — – Stefano Pagiola Food Research Institute, Stanford University

Response:

>I have flown Air Transat twice from Montreal to Paris and had no problems with >their service.  Once was an L1011 and the other times was an AB310.  The >flights were full of groups (I was with groups), and the service was much >better then the average charter.  They also fly to North Africa I believe. >he price is great- go for it!

Air Transat is expanding, and is expected to absorb many of the employees, aircraft and routes abandoned when Nationair stopped operations. This means they may now be using a number of Nationair’s 757s (yecch). I don’t know if they’ll be getting any of Nationair’s stretch DC-8s (double yecch), which were still in service last year when I checked. I hope not. —  Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario Suicide is illegal in 22 states. What would they do, give you the death penalty?

Response:

Evan Leibovitch writes > …. stretch DC-8s > (double yecch),

DC-8s.. "double yech"????!?  Heresy! — – Stefano Pagiola Food Research Institute, Stanford University

Response:

>>>Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in   >>a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going >Stefano – You may still be in luck, I think one of Canadian Airlines "partner" >airlines in Northern Canada has a regularly scheduled flight using an DC-3 >I seriously doubt this story, perchance you saw DH3 in the listing that >Canadi>n uses to identify DeHavilland Dash 8-300.  It is a prop plane.

Nope, The airline is not Canadian. It’s one of the small regional airlines that has allied itself with Canadian.  Of Course, this was two years ago. It was listed as DC3 not DH3, the other aircraft used on the route was more modern.  I sort of got the impression that the DC3 flight probably carried more cargo than passengers, since it took 5 – 6 hours longer than the other flight. —         Univ. of Toronto Computing & Communications         Instructional & Research Computing Group  (UTIRC)         4 Bancroft Ave., Room 103, Toronto, Ont., Canada,  M5S 1C1

Response:

>>Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in   >a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going >Stefano – You may still be in luck, I think one of Canadian Airlines "partner" >airlines in Northern Canada has a regularly scheduled flight using an DC-3

I seriously doubt this story, perchance you saw DH3 in the listing that Canadi>n uses to identify DeHavilland Dash 8-300.  It is a prop plane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

>  >Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in   >  >a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going >    The owner of ‘Virgin’ (the British based airline) started >    something based in Orlando, FL called ‘Vintage Airline’, >    if my memory serves me right. >    They use completely refurb DC3s and Fly Orlando-Key West, >    as a touristy attraction.  The refurb from what I remember >    reading in a travel magazine is to the extent of having >    copies of Life magazines from 1944 in the seat pockets. >    Do they dress the on-board staff accordingly?

I read an article about this recently.  They play appropriate period music over the loudspeakers, dress the flight attendants appropriately, serve appropriate food and drink, and have occasional announcements about "News of the World" (from the 1940s).  It actually was slightly cheaper than a "regular" flight Orlando-Key West.  It sounded real neat! — /    "The mind, Shelly, is a strange ball of goo." — Chris Stevens, NEXP

Response:

 >  >Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in    >a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going         The owner of ‘Virgin’ (the British based airline) started         something based in Orlando, FL called ‘Vintage Airline’,         if my memory serves me right.         They use completely refurb DC3s and Fly Orlando-Key West,         as a touristy attraction.  The refurb from what I remember         reading in a travel magazine is to the extent of having         copies of Life magazines from 1944 in the seat pockets.         Do they dress the on-board staff accordingly?         Great nostalgia trip. Might do it one day.         Jean-Marc

Response:

>Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in   >a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going

Stefano – You may still be in luck, I think one of Canadian Airlines "partner" airlines in Northern Canada has a regularly scheduled flight using an DC-3 aircraft.  That’s a Pre WWII designed aircraft.  I saw it in their flight schedule last year. From memory, I think it’s a flight from Yellowknife NWT to a few places before circling back to Yellowknife.  Get a Canadian Airlines schedule book to confirm. Happy flying! howard. —         Univ. of Toronto Computing & Communications         Instructional & Research Computing Group  (UTIRC)         4 Bancroft Ave., Room 103, Toronto, Ont., Canada,  M5S 1C1

Response:

>Hi All! >    I have been searching for approximately 2 months for the best fare to >England(i really dont care where in England as long as I get there).  The

[rave about great prices] >know, but I am not sure about them.  One of them is for an airline called >Canada 3000, the other is for an airline called Air Transat.  As I have never

Canada 3000 has a fairly sizable operation.  I don’t know how many planes but they fly to many vacation destinations, Hawaii, Florida and across Canada with a fleet of 757s.  I don’t know what equipment they have transatlantic as I have not heard of this service before.  Maybe they picked up Nationair since they were grounded.  Nationair did substantial transatlantic business with I believe a pair of 747s (maybe one). Air Transat is definitely a smaller operation.  I think they have L1011s which are probably on the transatlantic run.

Response:

>    I have been searching for approximately 2 months for the best fare to >England(i really dont care where in England as long as I get there).  The >best I have been able to find is for $399 cdn roundtrip. For us Americans, >that runs about $339 roundtrip, through a canadian travel agent, or another >fare for $357 through an American travel agent.  These are great prices, I >know, but I am not sure about them.  One of them is for an airline called >Canada 3000, the other is for an airline called Air Transat.  As I have never >heard of either of them, I would like to know if any of you netters have used >them.  Is it one of those deals where I ride in the back with a bunch of farm >animals, or is it a 1945 prop airplane.  Extreme examples, but I guess you >know what my concerns are.  Any info would be greatly appreciated…just send >E-mail..it is easier than getting on the net. >            Thanx, >                    Scott

Scott, Please, give us a bit of credit up here.  Canada isn’t some backwards third world country.  If anything, the travel industry is better regulated here than in the States, so you don’t have to worry about flying in some poorly maintained rattle trap DC3 with a bunch of bison and goats, nor do you have to worry about losing your money or getting stranded if you fly on a charter.  There’s a fund to protect passengers in the unlikely event that your charter company goes broke. I’ve flown Canada 3000.  I suppose the seats may have been more packed together than on other airlines, but certainly the service was at least as good as that offered by Air Canada (which isn’t saying much). If you’re worried about what brand of scotch you’ll be served on the flight, by all means pay the hundreds of dollars more to fly on Lufthansa or Swissair. However, I think you’ve found an excellent fare ($399 Canadian to London seems outstanding to me), and I’m sure they’ll get you there in one piece, serve you an edible meal and a few drinks, and you can spend your savings when you arrive (should take you about a day in London!)   /Phil

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Scott D Then writes > I have been searching for approximately 2 months for the > best fare to England(i really dont care where in England as > long as I get there).  The best I have been able to find is > for $399 cdn roundtrip. For us Americans, that runs about $339 > roundtrip, through a canadian travel agent, or another fare for > $357 through an American travel agent.  These are great prices, > I know, but I am not sure about them.  One of them is for an > airline called Canada 3000, the other is for an airline called > Air Transat.  As I have never heard of either of them, I would > like to know if any of you netters have used them.  Is it one of > those deals where I ride in the back with a bunch of farm > animals, or is it a 1945 prop airplane

No.  Both have 757s.  Air Transat also has L-1011s (and 727s, but I   doubt they’ll fly you over the pond in those). Of course, if somebody knows of an airline that will still fly me in   a 1945 prop plane, I’ll take them no matter where they’re going – Stefano Pagiola Food Research Institute, Stanford University

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>Hi All! >    I have been searching for approximately 2 months for the best fare to >England(i really dont care where in England as long as I get there).  The >best I have been able to find is for $399 cdn roundtrip. For us Americans, >that runs about $339 roundtrip, through a canadian travel agent, or another >fare for $357 through an American travel agent.  These are great prices, I >know, but I am not sure about them.  One of them is for an airline called >Canada 3000, the other is for an airline called Air Transat.  As I have never >heard of either of them, I would like to know if any of you netters have used >them.  Is it one of those deals where I ride in the back with a bunch of farm >animals, or is it a 1945 prop airplane.  Extreme examples, but I guess you >know what my concerns are.  Any info would be greatly appreciated…just send >E-mail..it is easier than getting on the net. >            Thanx,

I have flown Air Transat twice from Montreal to Paris and had no problems with their service.  Once was an L1011 and the other times was an AB310.  The flights were full of groups (I was with groups), and the service was much better then the average charter.  They also fly to North Africa I believe. he price is great- go for it! -Noah Cole —     "You’re all different"- Brian (Monty Python)      "I’m not"- Me 1600 Grand Avenue, Macalester College, St. Paul MN 55105 (612)-696-7388

Response:

Hi All!         I have been searching for approximately 2 months for the best fare to England(i really dont care where in England as long as I get there).  The best I have been able to find is for $399 cdn roundtrip. For us Americans, that runs about $339 roundtrip, through a canadian travel agent, or another fare for $357 through an American travel agent.  These are great prices, I know, but I am not sure about them.  One of them is for an airline called Canada 3000, the other is for an airline called Air Transat.  As I have never heard of either of them, I would like to know if any of you netters have used them.  Is it one of those deals where I ride in the back with a bunch of farm animals, or is it a 1945 prop airplane.  Extreme examples, but I guess you know what my concerns are.  Any info would be greatly appreciated…just send E-mail..it is easier than getting on the net.                 Thanx,                         Scott

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