Question:
> I don’t understand why any airline serving JFK would be against > improving transit to the airport.
I think it has to do with where the funds come from. I think AA objected to airport funds (partly contributed by AA paying usage fees to the airport) being used to fund a public transit initiative. Of course, AA probably doesn’t want to admit that it is in fact a public transit company. Perhaps urban public transit authorities should object to federal funds going to help inter-city transit companies (aka: airlines, amtrak etc).
Response:
> This is hardly worth the complaint. Since converting my TWA miles > to American, and flying AA, I can say that the additional leg room is > a distinct bonus. And I don’t care how AA selects to advertise this > feature. Although I believe I once heard the expression, "The only > major airline with additional leg room for all seats". Or something > like that.
Not worth the complaint? Let’s say you have never flown AA. Or you have, and had one or many bad experiences. Advertising is designed to brig you back, or attract you for your first flight. Would you like to know that you were lied to to get you there? I doubt it. And while were at it, have you ever gotton a Bic Mac from McDonalds that looks like it does in a commercial??? 
Response:
My big macs keep on getting smaller and smaller…or is it just me getting bigger and bigger??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This is hardly worth the complaint. Since converting my TWA miles >to American, and flying AA, I can say that the additional leg room is >a distinct bonus. And I don’t care how AA selects to advertise this >feature. Although I believe I once heard the expression, "The only >major airline with additional leg room for all seats". Or something >like that. > Not worth the complaint? Let’s say you have never flown AA. Or you have, > and had one or many bad experiences. Advertising is designed to brig you > back, or attract you for your first flight. Would you like to know that you > were lied to to get you there? I doubt it. And while were at it, have you > ever gotton a Bic Mac from McDonalds that looks like it does in a > commercial???
Response:
> My big macs keep on getting smaller and smaller…or is it just me > getting bigger and bigger???
thats what happens when you eat too many bigmacs =P
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar >advertising > > campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and >charge AA > > with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press >releases. > Continental also put out a release this past Monday I think, giving the >truth > about the Newark monorail rail-plane connection, which AA tried to crap >all over > the previous Friday. > Matthew > AA’s first release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020419/daf022_1.html > CO’s correction: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020423/cgtu060_1.html >AA has no moral compass when it comes to the issue of promoting rail access >to JFK Airport. >Several years ago, they lead the charge (along with ATA) to scuttle rail >access to JFK by filing a lawsuit seeking to prevent PFC funds from being >used to fund JFK AirTrain. >Now, suddenly they are "deathbed" converts and claim to support the concept >of a one seat ride from JFK to Manhattan.
There will still not be a one-seat ride to Manhattan, even with the monorail connection. The whole project is an example of the political inflighting that plagues the New York metro area, in large part because of these multi-state regional compacts that just don’t work. I am hopeful that NYC wouldn’t renew its deal with the Port Authority when it expired in a few years and would take its airports back. At least that would give it some muscle which hopefully would lead to changes in stupid projects like Airtrain. I support its idea, but as long as it’s not a one-seat ride, its usefulness is severely limited. But with Giuliani’s departure and the events of 9/11, things like that aren’t on the burner anymore. So it’s likely the deal will be extended again.
Response:
I don’t understand why any airline serving JFK would be against improving transit to the airport.
Response:
> Why not just change their advertising to the "only solvent airline to > invest the time and resources into adding additional space in every > coach cabin, in every airplane."
This is hardly worth the complaint. Since converting my TWA miles to American, and flying AA, I can say that the additional leg room is a distinct bonus. And I don’t care how AA selects to advertise this feature. Although I believe I once heard the expression, "The only major airline with additional leg room for all seats". Or something like that.
Response:
>I don’t understand why any airline serving JFK would be against >improving transit to the airport.
I’m not sure they were against it per se. They just didn’t want PFCs used to fund it. Now, since AA has a large domestic operation at LGA, they do have a vested interest in other airports. But JFK and LGA don’t really compete against each other because relatively few people use JFK for domestic traffic.
Response:
> This also says NOTHING to the fact that it was actually TWA that did it all > first. They used to call it "Comfort Class" I think they were like 22 and > 146 – something like that. But, AA owns them now so I guess they get to lay > claim to their history as well.
Well, TWA took them out AND also put them back. AA had to reconfigure the TWA aircraft for MRTC
Response:
Why not just change their advertising to the "only solvent airline to invest the time and resources into adding additional space in every coach cabin, in every airplane." LL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar advertising >campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and charge AA >with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press releases. > AA is not outright lying. It is Clintonesque parsing. see below. >LAS VEGAS–(BUSINESS WIRE)–April 25, 2002–National Airlines is correcting >inaccurate claims made by American Airlines in a press release issued by >American on April 23 regarding an upcoming television commercial. >In the press release, the American Airlines executive vice president of >marketing and planning stated that his carrier was the "only airline to >invest the time and resources into adding additional space in every coach >cabin, in every airplane." > Well since National claims below that they have ALWAYS had the > additional space, then they did not invest anything to "ADD ADDITIONAL > space" therefore AA’s statement is technically correct. I’d like to see > AA make that claim and get laughed at, but still… >National’s configuration has been in place since it started operations in >May of 1999, and is virtually identical to the new configuration of >American’s 757 aircraft. > I’ve flown National, they are good for jaunts to/from Vegas from a few > cities, but otherwise aren’t really an airline in the same class as AA > or other majors. National serves a very specific niche. National is > also in bankruptcy as I recall, and when I flew them I wasn’t very > impressed with them as a well-run organization, so IMO this is really > just a publicity stunt by a desparate regional airline. > Mike
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar advertising > campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and charge AA > with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press releases. > Continental also put out a release this past Monday I think, giving the truth > about the Newark monorail rail-plane connection, which AA tried to crap all over > the previous Friday. > Matthew > AA’s first release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020419/daf022_1.html > CO’s correction: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020423/cgtu060_1.html
AA has no moral compass when it comes to the issue of promoting rail access to JFK Airport. Several years ago, they lead the charge (along with ATA) to scuttle rail access to JFK by filing a lawsuit seeking to prevent PFC funds from being used to fund JFK AirTrain. Now, suddenly they are "deathbed" converts and claim to support the concept of a one seat ride from JFK to Manhattan. How odd. Ironic that if AA and the ATA had prevailed, there would be no rail line to extend into New York City– and hence, no one seat ride to suddenly advocate. Were it not for CO’s heavy promotion of AirTrain Newark, AA would certainly not feel threatened. Incidentally, the first two segments of JFK AirTrain (the CTA loop and the segment to Howard Beach) is scheduled to open by October 1, 2002 (or thereabouts). Kenneth Lin
Response:
> After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar advertising > campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and charge AA > with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press releases.
Continental also put out a release this past Monday I think, giving the truth about the Newark monorail rail-plane connection, which AA tried to crap all over the previous Friday. Matthew AA’s first release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020419/daf022_1.html CO’s correction: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020423/cgtu060_1.html
Response:
This also says NOTHING to the fact that it was actually TWA that did it all first. They used to call it "Comfort Class" I think they were like 22 and 146 – something like that. But, AA owns them now so I guess they get to lay claim to their history as well.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar advertising > campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and charge AA > with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press releases. > Continental also put out a release this past Monday I think, giving the truth > about the Newark monorail rail-plane connection, which AA tried to crap all over > the previous Friday. > Matthew > AA’s first release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020419/daf022_1.html > CO’s correction: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020423/cgtu060_1.html
Response:
After spending big bucks on their recent multi-million dollar advertising campaign, AA is stuck eating crow as two carriers step forward and charge AA with outright lying in their advertising campaigns and/or press releases. LAS VEGAS–(BUSINESS WIRE)–April 25, 2002–National Airlines is correcting inaccurate claims made by American Airlines in a press release issued by American on April 23 regarding an upcoming television commercial. In the press release, the American Airlines executive vice president of marketing and planning stated that his carrier was the "only airline to invest the time and resources into adding additional space in every coach cabin, in every airplane." American Airlines has made similar claims since the carrier initiated its program to remove seats from their aircraft approximately two years ago. National Airlines, based in Las Vegas, operates a fleet of Boeing 757 jet aircraft, each with 175 seats (22 in First Class and 153 in Coach). National’s configuration has been in place since it started operations in May of 1999, and is virtually identical to the new configuration of American’s 757 aircraft. "We believe American is attempting a `spin’ in its worst form. After all, it was American that crammed the seats into coach in the first place, and apparently, they have now decided it was a bad idea. For American to now take a shot at the rest of the industry is especially distasteful, particularly to us at National as we have been providing the additional legroom all along," said Michael J. Conway, president and CEO of National. "It is also unfortunate that these types of claims often go unchecked, but not this time." National is the second airline to issue a correction on a statement made by American in the past week. Continental Airlines earlier issued a statement correcting an American Airlines statement made on April 19 regarding rail service between New York City and Newark International Airport. National Airlines operates an all Boeing fleet of 757 jet aircraft serving Chicago Midway, Chicago O’Hare, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, New York JFK, Newark, Philadelphia and San Francisco with nonstop flights to and from its Las Vegas hub. The airline will take delivery of three additional aircraft in the coming weeks to inaugurate new service at Seattle and provide additional service to Dallas/Ft. Worth on May 23rd.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you > feel > > you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be > in > > deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to > > identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight > crew. > Where in the world do you get this? > There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight > attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the > first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight. > I tried to get the name of a United member of crew once, to complain about > them. I nearly go thrown off the plane
Flight attendants are the "new power" in the skies now, and they damn well know it. AA has the WORST rep for it’s flight attendants being bitches in the air, male and female both! Visit SkyTrax where you can both read passenger comments about the airline/flight crews, etc, both good AND bad, and even post your own. http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/am_aa.htm
Response:
Oh lord, first Sybil Mezei and now Sybil Voight. Michael Voight (mrtravel) posting as multiple personality Lost 5 of 8 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Deep shit indeed. Please… While Homeland security is an actual > necessity, >>crew names are hardly part of it. > Ok, if you say so. ASK your next flight attendant for their I.D. Go for > it. 
>Security rules REQUIRE visible ID. In addition, AA FA’s wear name tags. >Plus, the first and last names of the flight crew are announced quite >often. Please point us to the Homeland Security rule that prevents them > from telling you their name.
Nah, better to point to this: About Netkook Troll/Newsgroups Flooder Michael "mrtravel" Voight "mrtravel" is the usenet handle of a brainless usenet troll whose San Jose and apparently they don’t keep him busy enough so he has to troll usenet when he isn’t looking for foreign brides to marry in exchange for money in alt.visa.us.marriage-based and alt.personals.big-folks, or trying to pick up minors in alt.personals.teens or any of the number of creepy newsgroups he frequents. Some of his other trolling aliases are Network His phone number is 831-252-2606. He’s got a daughter in Orange County that one of his ex-wives had the intelligence to take away from him. Lord only knows what could have happened to her if she had continued to live with the kook. The other kids he has belong to his previous Russian sleazy brides, and since they come and go so do the kids. It wouldn’t hurt to let Cisco know what kind of deviant sexual pervert maniac they have working for them, so…. He often posts through sbcglobal and prodigy, so forward them to You can also call them at 1 800 553 2447 and ask to speak with a supervisor and explain that you are EXTREMELY unhappy that this idiot spends his whole day at work playing on the internet on company time. THEY WILL NOT LIKE THAT. Then write to corporate headquarters explaining what this idiot is doing and telling them HOW BAD IT IS FOR THEIR COMPANY IMAGE. They will LOVE that you brought this to their attention: Cisco Systems, Inc. 170 West Tasman Dr. San Jose, CA 95134 USA Then also call them. You should always follow up email or letters with phone calls. Always ask for supervisors or managers. Try to get as far up as possible. (408)526-4000 (800)553-NETS or (800)553-6387 Contact Investor Relations and tell them you are interested in investing in their company but won’t do so until they get rid of this asshole who is wasting company resources: Cisco Systems, Inc. Investor Relations Department 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 Phone: (408) 526-8890 Fax: (408) 526-4545 Might as well contact customer service too, they LOVE to hear about this type of stuff: USA 1 800 553 6387 Then finally, send letters with copies of his nasty posts addressed personally to each one of the OFFICERS of the company using the headquarters address. Believe me, they READ your complaints and are VERY INTERESTED in them, especially if it’s about one of their employees. They will take a PERSONAL interest in rooting this ASSHOLE out of their company: John Morgridge, Chairman John Chambers, President, CEO Donald Valentine, Vice Chairman Larry Carter, CFO, Sr. VP-Fin. and Admin., Sec., Director Richard Justice, Sr. VP, Worldwide Field Operations Have fun!
Response:
> None, you’re either fetchingly paranoid, or don’t travel by air at all…..
And you’re either blind, or one of the perfect little flying drones who notices nothing – just how the airlines like it.
Response:
>>Deep shit indeed. Please… While Homeland security is an actual > necessity, >crew names are hardly part of it. > Ok, if you say so. ASK your next flight attendant for their I.D. Go for > it.
Security rules REQUIRE visible ID. In addition, AA FA’s wear name tags. Plus, the first and last names of the flight crew are announced quite often. Please point us to the Homeland Security rule that prevents them from telling you their name.
Response:
>>None, you’re either fetchingly paranoid, or don’t travel by air at > all….. > And you’re either blind, or one of the perfect little flying drones who > notices nothing – just how the airlines like it.
I doubt you ever fly, as you seem to miss those name tags clearly visible on thier uniforms, and the photo id’s they all have. Additionally, it seems you have never heard them announce the names of the pilot and first officer on the plane. Additionally you keep pointing out some Homeland Security "rules" that, apparently, only you have access to.
Response:
> IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you feel > you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be in > deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to > identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight crew. > Where in the world do you get this? > There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight > attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the > first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight.
I tried to get the name of a United member of crew once, to complain about them. I nearly go thrown off the plane
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you > feel >>you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be > in >>deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to >>identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight > crew. >Where in the world do you get this? >There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight >attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the >first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight. > I tried to get the name of a United member of crew once, to complain about > them. I nearly go thrown off the plane
Do they wear name tags? Did you report this to a supervisor? What reason did they give for "nearly" throwing you off the plane?
Response:
> But this is what you do: You take names, you take numbers (dates, times, > flight numbers, willing witnesses phone numbers) and when it’s over, you make > phone calls and send letters/email to the appropriate people, not just at AA > but if it’s a real abuse of power, to the FAA, NTSB, the airport, etc.
Yes, and how does one do that under the circumstances described in the original post? Don’t you think the FA wouldn’t interfere with collecting names and phone numbers of whitnesses? Do you think witnesses would feel intimidated to privide names and phone numbers?
Response:
t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But this is what you do: You take names, you take numbers (dates, times, > flight numbers, willing witnesses phone numbers) and when it’s over, you make > phone calls and send letters/email to the appropriate people, not just at AA > but if it’s a real abuse of power, to the FAA, NTSB, the airport, etc. > Yes, and how does one do that under the circumstances described in the > original post? Don’t you think the FA wouldn’t interfere with collecting > names and phone numbers of whitnesses? Do you think witnesses would feel > intimidated to privide names and phone numbers?
IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you feel you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be in deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight crew. Dairenn Lombard, you’re welcome to try it . . . and come back and let us all know how it went when you are finished being detained, mmm k?
Response:
> IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you feel > you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be in > deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to > identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight crew.
Where in the world do you get this? There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight.
Response:
> IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you feel > you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be in > deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to > identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight crew. > Where in the world do you get this? > There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight > attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the > first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight.
Exactly. Now, try making a point of finding out what their names are.
Response:
None muttered…. > Ok, if you say so. ASK your next flight attendant for their I.D. Go > for it.
Just did, Monday last, MPX/ATL. She told me. ….and the Pilot had given us his name in the pre-takeoff announcements. Flying frequently, I’ve only seen one pax ever removed from a plane, and that was for what was either drunkeness or a comatose state induced by a medicasl condition. Come to think of it, as dumb as they can sometimes appear to be, I’ve never seen the TSA do any more than sort of silly exaggerations to their normal search routine. Inconvenient? Sure. Borderline cretinous or obtuse? Of course. Harassment? Who, when and where….no legends, please. None, you’re either fetchingly paranoid, or don’t travel by air at all….. TMO
Response:
> Yes, and how does one do that under the circumstances described in the > original post? Don’t you think the FA wouldn’t interfere with collecting > names and phone numbers of whitnesses? Do you think witnesses would feel > intimidated to privide names and phone numbers?
Just general advice whenever you’re in a situation where somebody’s messing up. Obviously, it might be a little precarious although I doubt it would turn into a circus of FAs throwing off a half a dozen passengers ’cause they’re all supposedly drunk, heh. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you > feel >>you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be > in >>deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to >>identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight > crew. >Where in the world do you get this? >There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight >attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the >first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight. > Exactly. Now, try making a point of finding out what their names are.
OK, assuming you’re not a nutjob… It wouldn’t be that hard for AA to figure out which crew was on that flight if provided with a date, time, flight number and, if the FA refused to identify themselves (which is B.S. but let’s just say happens anyway), can be described. Deep shit indeed. Please… While Homeland security is an actual necessity, crew names are hardly part of it. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004
Response:
> Yes, and how does one do that under the circumstances described in the > original post? Don’t you think the FA wouldn’t interfere with collecting > names and phone numbers of whitnesses? Yes. > Do you think witnesses would feel > intimidated to privide names and phone numbers?
Yes. In this new day and age of air travel, so much as blinking your eyes wrong at a check point can land you in hours of questioning and scrutiny. So much as a disagreeable look towards a flight attendant can get you charged with "interfering with a flight crew" and tossed in jail on landing. Flight attendants will not hesitate to have a passenger tossed off a plane or even charged with interfering with a flight crew (which, by the way, is a charge that can be levied based on the flight attendant’s word only, no proof required). I’ve been on far too many flights where the flight attendants whine to the captain that a certain passenger is acting funny, or just doesn’t look right and boom, they’ll have them hauled off the plane. Never underestimate a flight attendant on the rag, male OR female. For no good reason whatsoever, you could be their next target – seen it too many times to doubt it.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>IF YOU ASK for a flight attendant’s name, employee number, whatever you > feel >>>you need to identify them for a complaint you intend to file – you’ll be > in >>>deep shit. Homeland security measures are very strict when it comes to >>>identifying pilots, flight attendants, etc., any member of a flight > crew. >>Where in the world do you get this? >>There are no such restrictions regarding knowing the name of the flight >>attendant, pilots on a flight. In fact, often they will announce the >>first and last names of the pilot and first officer during the flight. > Exactly. Now, try making a point of finding out what their names are. > OK, assuming you’re not a nutjob… > It wouldn’t be that hard for AA to figure out which crew was on that flight if > provided with a date, time, flight number and, if the FA refused to identify > themselves (which is B.S. but let’s just say happens anyway), can be described. > Deep shit indeed. Please… While Homeland security is an actual necessity, > crew names are hardly part of it.
Ok, if you say so. ASK your next flight attendant for their I.D. Go for it.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas > 22 November 2003 > MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While > boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon > boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly > gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or > something > to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are boarding > the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told the > pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the man, > find > out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the concourse > Today is Nov 21… in MIA and STX. > "He" said he only had one beer…. How many times do you think drunk > drivers tell this to cops?
The point is that the passenger standing behind him says that the passenger was not drunk and the FA was a jerk. FFM snip
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas >> 22 November 2003 >> MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While >> boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon >> boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly >> gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or >> something >> to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are >> boarding >> the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told >> the >> pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the >> man, find >> out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the >> concourse > Today is Nov 21… in MIA and STX. > "He" said he only had one beer…. How many times do you think drunk > drivers tell this to cops? > The point is that the passenger standing behind him says that the > passenger was not drunk and the FA was a jerk.
The FA thought he was drunk. There was a disagreement about whether he was or not. So, rather than risk a liability in the air, they chose to put him off the plane. Do you think this is something the do a lot or do without reason?
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas >>> 22 November 2003 >>> MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While >>> boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon >>> boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly >>> gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or >>> something >>> to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are >>> boarding >>> the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told >>> the >>> pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the >>> man, find >>> out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the >>> concourse >> Today is Nov 21… in MIA and STX. >> "He" said he only had one beer…. How many times do you think drunk >> drivers tell this to cops? > The point is that the passenger standing behind him says that the > passenger was not drunk and the FA was a jerk. > The FA thought he was drunk. There was a disagreement about whether he > was or not. So, rather than risk a liability in the air, they chose to > put him off the plane. Do you think this is something the do a lot or do > without reason?
Yes, rumor has it (and it’s a damn good rumor) that AA Flight Attendants routinely use the "appears to be intoxicated" FAA rule to deplane passengers they don’t like. The passenger doesn’t actually have to be intoxicated, the flight attendant only has to say that the passenger "appears to be intoxicated" and that’s all it takes, the passenger gets tossed off the plane, and the flight attendant doesn’t have to deal with a passenger they don’t like. It’s a power trip thing.
Response:
> Yes, rumor has it (and it’s a damn good rumor) that AA Flight Attendants > routinely use the "appears to be intoxicated" FAA rule to deplane passengers > they don’t like. The passenger doesn’t actually have to be intoxicated, the > flight attendant only has to say that the passenger "appears to be > intoxicated" and that’s all it takes, the passenger gets tossed off the > plane, and the flight attendant doesn’t have to deal with a passenger they > don’t like.
I think it would take being a serious asshole before an FA would even care to notice a passenger enough to resort to such an extreme measure, sir. If FAs were booting pax off flights at the drop of a hat, for any reason at all (ie., an _actual_ power trip), then there’d really be a problem. And, management will have done something about it. The AA FAs I’ve talked to have made it perfectly clear that management will not tolerate any inappropriate action towards paying customers when they have clear evidence of it being the case. But this is what you do: You take names, you take numbers (dates, times, flight numbers, willing witnesses phone numbers) and when it’s over, you make phone calls and send letters/email to the appropriate people, not just at AA but if it’s a real abuse of power, to the FAA, NTSB, the airport, etc. Not bitch, whine and moan, carrying on about never flying that airline again. As a business, they will bend-over backwards to do everything to make it up to a customer to retain their business. But by the same token, they also have no interest in attempting to keep around a sniveling, whining cry-baby who’s using a situation where they were justifiably removed from the flight to try and goat sympathy points out of bystanders. "Damn good" is hardly an empiracle basis on which to support a rumor, sir. I suggest you back up these outlandish claims with something real, such as evidence there has been an investigation into such rampid abuse of power. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas > 22 November 2003 > MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While > boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon > boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly > gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or something > to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are boarding > the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told the > pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the man, find > out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the concourse > Today is Nov 21… in MIA and STX. > "He" said he only had one beer…. How many times do you think drunk > drivers tell this to cops? > American Airlines – by Fabian Bonavia > 21 November 2003 > I travelled American Airlines New York La Guardia to Key West, Florida via > Miami – it was definitely the worst travel experience of my life. My flight > out of La Guardia was scheduled to leave at 5.10pm and I was at the airport > 2 hours earlier. The check in lounge looked like a storehouse with agents > yelling their heads off. The American airline gates were dirty and noisy > with torn seats and dirty carpets. > Does AA do the maintenance or the airport authority? > 1 hour prior to scheduled departure a 45 > minute delay notice was posted on the monitor. A few minutes later, a 1 hour > 30 minute delay was posted. The agent only showed up around 30 minutes prior > to departure with many people left helpless at the desk. > What were they trying to do? > Did they not already have boarding passes? > The pilots > themselves had to help us out. The Boeing 757 was old and scruffy and the > IFE was pitiful – charging $2 for a headset! > You get to keep the headset. You are free to bring your own and not get > charged. They use to charge $5 PER FLIGHT > I asked the stewardess > "stewardess"?? They haven’t been called this for many years. > whether > I could leave the aircraft before other passengers as I ran the risk of > missing my connecting flight. She said that I would probably miss it anyway > and ignored my request – however, prior to landing, another stewardess made > an announcement assuring passengers that they would get on their connecting > flight. Running from one terminal to another in a streak of panic, I (along > with at least 20 other passengers) lost the last flight out to Key West by > just 5 minutes. > >Knowing that there was a 2 hour delay at LGA, AA personnel > made no effort to wait a few minutes – they couldn’t care less. The AA agent > at MIA said that the flight had to leave because the tower at Key West > closes at 11pm! However, AA insists on scheduling Key West flights this late > at night anyway. > Because people want to take them that late.. It helps with people that > are connecting. > He also made it quite clear that no passengers were going > to be compensated for accommodation or car hire. > What was the cause of the delay?? > It may be the kind of the delay that airlines don’t compensate for.
exactly. Everyone is going to have to draw their own conclusions. I’m not aware that LGA concourses are in that bad of shape, they aren’t the best, but this customer makes it sound like the armageddon takes place there every day. The story on the veteran is on target. It would certainly take more than one beer for me, but a lot of elderly are on medications that one beer mixed in with them could be like ten. However, in this instance, I doubt it.
Response:
> American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas > 22 November 2003 > MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While > boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon > boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly > gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or something > to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are boarding > the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told the > pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the man, find > out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the concourse
Today is Nov 21… in MIA and STX. "He" said he only had one beer…. How many times do you think drunk drivers tell this to cops? > American Airlines – by Fabian Bonavia > 21 November 2003 > I travelled American Airlines New York La Guardia to Key West, Florida via > Miami – it was definitely the worst travel experience of my life. My flight > out of La Guardia was scheduled to leave at 5.10pm and I was at the airport > 2 hours earlier. The check in lounge looked like a storehouse with agents > yelling their heads off. The American airline gates were dirty and noisy > with torn seats and dirty carpets.
Does AA do the maintenance or the airport authority? 1 hour prior to scheduled departure a 45 > minute delay notice was posted on the monitor. A few minutes later, a 1 hour > 30 minute delay was posted. The agent only showed up around 30 minutes prior > to departure with many people left helpless at the desk.
What were they trying to do? Did they not already have boarding passes? The pilots > themselves had to help us out. The Boeing 757 was old and scruffy and the > IFE was pitiful – charging $2 for a headset!
You get to keep the headset. You are free to bring your own and not get charged. They use to charge $5 PER FLIGHT > I asked the stewardess
"stewardess"?? They haven’t been called this for many years. whether > I could leave the aircraft before other passengers as I ran the risk of > missing my connecting flight. She said that I would probably miss it anyway > and ignored my request – however, prior to landing, another stewardess made > an announcement assuring passengers that they would get on their connecting > flight. Running from one terminal to another in a streak of panic, I (along > with at least 20 other passengers) lost the last flight out to Key West by > just 5 minutes.
>Knowing that there was a 2 hour delay at LGA, AA personnel > made no effort to wait a few minutes – they couldn’t care less. The AA agent > at MIA said that the flight had to leave because the tower at Key West > closes at 11pm! However, AA insists on scheduling Key West flights this late > at night anyway.
Because people want to take them that late.. It helps with people that are connecting. He also made it quite clear that no passengers were going > to be compensated for accommodation or car hire.
What was the cause of the delay?? It may be the kind of the delay that airlines don’t compensate for.
Response:
American Airlines – by Jamison DeHaas 22 November 2003 MIA/STX. Typical Sunday in Miami. Nonstop flight to St. Croix. While boarding, I was behind an elderly gentleman walking with a cane. Upon boarding a male flight attendant standing at doorway and the elderly gentleman told him this airline sure makes you wear ugly ties, or something to that affect. Next thing you know airline ground personnel are boarding the plane questioning the old man because a flight attendant had told the pilot that the old man was drunk and disorderly. They talk to the man, find out he’s not drunk, said he only had one beer at the bar on the concourse. He may have sounded drunk but he was deep southern, spoke with a heavy southern drawl accent. He walked funny (as the flight attendant said he was staggering) because he was a Veteran with an artificial leg) and all this had to be aired like dirty laundry in front of everyone on the plane. The flight attendant told the ground person (who was very nice and trying his best to keep the man on the plane) that this plane ain’t going nowhere until he is removed. Very sad to see that American Airlines flight attendants have turned into wardens in the sky. This flight attendant was very mean. In my opinion, all because the man said something about the flight attendants tie. The man looked so embarrassed hobbling off the plane, they made him leave without his cane I guess in case he decided to whap the flight attendant on the way out. I was embarrassed for the poor man and so was everyone else. Editor: We get numerous comments about the arrogance of AA cabin staff which are unprintable, but follow your theme. If they want to continue being so paranoid or officious, one would hope they could be found a job in the back room – sadly, union restraints prevent the best solution – to fire them and get someone who would actually enjoy and appreciate the job – are they forced to work here ? American Airlines – by Fabian Bonavia 21 November 2003 I travelled American Airlines New York La Guardia to Key West, Florida via Miami – it was definitely the worst travel experience of my life. My flight out of La Guardia was scheduled to leave at 5.10pm and I was at the airport 2 hours earlier. The check in lounge looked like a storehouse with agents yelling their heads off. The American airline gates were dirty and noisy with torn seats and dirty carpets. 1 hour prior to scheduled departure a 45 minute delay notice was posted on the monitor. A few minutes later, a 1 hour 30 minute delay was posted. The agent only showed up around 30 minutes prior to departure with many people left helpless at the desk. The pilots themselves had to help us out. The Boeing 757 was old and scruffy and the IFE was pitiful – charging $2 for a headset! I asked the stewardess whether I could leave the aircraft before other passengers as I ran the risk of missing my connecting flight. She said that I would probably miss it anyway and ignored my request – however, prior to landing, another stewardess made an announcement assuring passengers that they would get on their connecting flight. Running from one terminal to another in a streak of panic, I (along with at least 20 other passengers) lost the last flight out to Key West by just 5 minutes. Knowing that there was a 2 hour delay at LGA, AA personnel made no effort to wait a few minutes – they couldn’t care less. The AA agent at MIA said that the flight had to leave because the tower at Key West closes at 11pm! However, AA insists on scheduling Key West flights this late at night anyway. He also made it quite clear that no passengers were going to be compensated for accommodation or car hire. I had to fork out $100 to stay in the mediocre MIA hotel. The next morning I went to the US desk to get my boarding pass. The US air agent said that I had to go back to the AA desk and get a ticket because the document that AA had given me specifying that I should travel on the US Air flight was useless. The AA agent (who could hardly speak a word of English) ended up giving me a coupon not a ticket! When the US Air agent told me that it was also inadequate, I went back to the AA desk and yelled at the top of my voice saying that I was not going to miss another flight because of someone elses incompetence. The agent finally gave me a boarding pass and I managed to get on the US air flight in the nick of time. On returning from Key West, the ATR-72 was more filthy than the 757, with the seatbelt actually staining by shirt. I will never ever travel with AA again. It is a disgrace to the airline industry. Direct Link: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/am_aa.htm
Response:
Liz D. Indianapolis 
4 6 1 – 8 7 0 7 The idiot is a two-time high school dropout and had to join the Marines because even the Army rejected him! He’s got a daughter in Orange County that one of his ex-wives had the intelligence to take away from him. Lord only knows what could have happened to her if she had continued to live with the kook. The other kids he has belong to his previous Russian sleazy brides, and since they come and go so do the kids. It wouldn’t hurt to let Cisco know what kind of deviant sexual pervert they have working for them. Many people have wondered how Cisco ever hired such a psycho. It cheapens their image and credibility in the corporate world after all. Well, they didn’t hire him directly, he came as baggage when they acquired the company he used to work for, TGV Software. His e-mail All intelligent members of the usenet community have killfiled him, so he takes great pains to get past their killfiles by rubbing his only two cerebral neurons together and coming up with gems like: a y> Some of his other trolling aliases are: l . n e t> Lately he’s had some gender confusion and has been posting as women, such as: Perhaps he’s thinking of getting a sex change (or worse, raping some teenage girls). It would be a good idea to call Cisco at 1-800-553-2447 and ask to speak with a supervisor and explain that you are EXTREMELY unhappy that this idiot spends his whole day at work playing on the internet on company time. THEY WILL NOT LIKE THAT. Then write to corporate headquarters explaining what this idiot is doing and telling them HOW BAD IT IS FOR THEIR COMPANY IMAGE. They will LOVE that you brought this to their attention: Cisco Systems, Inc. 170 West Tasman Dr. San Jose, CA 95134 USA Then also call them. You should always follow up email or letters with phone calls. Always ask for supervisors or managers. Try to get as far up as possible. (408)526-4000 (800)553-NETS or (800)553-6387 Contact Investor Relations and tell them you are interested in investing in their company but won’t do so until they get rid of this asshole who is wasting company resources: Cisco Systems, Inc. Investor Relations Department 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 Phone: (408) 526-8890 Fax: (408) 526-4545 Might as well contact customer service too, they LOVE to hear about this type of stuff: USA 1 800 553 6387 Then finally, send letters with copies of his nasty posts addressed personally to each one of the OFFICERS of the company using the headquarters address. Believe me, they READ your complaints and are VERY INTERESTED in them, especially if it’s about one of their employees. They will take a PERSONAL interest in rooting this ASSHOLE out of their company: John Morgridge, Chairman Phone: (408) 526-8229 Fax: (408) 526-4100 John Chambers, President, CEO Phone: (408) 526-8222 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Larry Carter, CFO, Sr. VP-Fin. and Admin., Sec., Director Phone: (408) 526-8211 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Richard Justice, Sr. VP, Worldwide Field Operations Phone: (408) 527-7371 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Brad Boston,Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer Phone: (408) 526-7008 Fax: (408) 526-8220 Susan Lori Bostrom Senior Vice President, Internet Business Solutions Group Phone: (408) 527-5648 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Howard S. Charney Senior Vice President, Office of the President Phone: (408) 526-8300 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Kate DCamp Senior Vice President, Human Resources Phone: (408) 527-9530 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Gail Morales Manager, Human Resources, Employment Phone: (408) 527-6654 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Peggy Lynch Employee Benefits Phone: (408) 526-8859 Fax: (408) 527-6080 Mario Mazzola Senior Vice President and Chief Development Officer Phone: (408) 526-5535 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Betsy Rafael Vice President and Corporate Controller Phone: (408) 525-0164 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Claudia Ceniceros Manager, Public Relations Phone: (408) 525-4700 Fax: (408) 526-4100 Write, call, and fax: Cisco Systems, Inc. 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, California 95134-1706, USA Phone: (408) 526-4000 Fax: (408) 526-4100 (800)553-NETS = (800)553-6387 Have fun! — Questo messaggio e’ stato inoltrato automaticamente da un paio di anonymous remailer. Il mittente originale e’ sconosciuto e non identificabile. Datevi pace.