Question:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/A-baggage-handler-took-my-camel-s… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we > now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to > anyone else? > Yes. Iberia, LGW->MAD->RIO->SCL, with bags checked all the way through. > Someone stole a lightweight waterproof jacket from my wife’s rucksack. > We deliberately used old rather battered rucksacks for the trip and we > were a bit dismayed that something we needed for the trip had gone > missing, especially as we planned to do quite a bit more air travel in > Chile and Argentina. > We tied up the zips with bits of string and trimmed the ends so that > they would have to be cut off rather than untied, and we didn’t lose > anything else. > — > Simon Elliott    http://www.ctsn.co.uk

Response:

> How many times can they go through the machines without damage is the > point… I acknowledge once or twice may have no *noticeable* effect; > how many more times are safe  considering the other tourist site > security x-rays your stuff gets these days?  The pre-flight x-rays are > the only ones I hare a right and method to abstain and eliminate.

Why not just get your exposed film processed while traveling or mail it back home? When I shot photos with film, I would just buy mailers from a local photography store and drop them off at a post office during my travels, but these days, 1-hour photo places are common in many areas, so that’s an option for those who still shoot photos with film. The only reason not to do that that comes to mind is pros who may shoot with film that isn’t easily handled at 1-hour photo shops.

Response:

I don’t need the added expense if I can limit x-ray damage during the trip; every roll doesn’t go through every tourist site nuke, but they all go through the airport machines.  I can get nice size prints for just less that $3 per 24 exp roll with a coupon locally.  I’m taking Ten rolls; it adds up! Tim K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many times can they go through the machines without damage is the > point… I acknowledge once or twice may have no *noticeable* effect; > how many more times are safe  considering the other tourist site > security x-rays your stuff gets these days?  The pre-flight x-rays are > the only ones I hare a right and method to abstain and eliminate. > Why not just get your exposed film processed while traveling or mail it > back home? When I shot photos with film, I would just buy mailers from a > local photography store and drop them off at a post office during my > travels, but these days, 1-hour photo places are common in many areas, > so that’s an option for those who still shoot photos with film. The only > reason not to do that that comes to mind is pros who may shoot with film > that isn’t easily handled at 1-hour photo shops.

Response:

How many times can they go through the machines without damage is the point… I acknowledge once or twice may have no *noticeable* effect; how many more times are safe  considering the other tourist site security x-rays your stuff gets these days?  The pre-flight x-rays are the only ones I hare a right and method to abstain and eliminate. Tim K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m even going to ask for the dreaded "hand inspection" of my 10 rolls > (400asa) of unexposed film so it won’t get fogged by x-rays, no matter > how much they *insist* it is "safe"… > It is safe. I have had hundreds of rolls of film inspected by the x-ray > machines at check-in stations in the United States and Europe without > any problem at all. In this day and age its a moot point for me though > because I shoot digital now.

Response:

> I’m even going to ask for the dreaded "hand inspection" of my 10 rolls > (400asa) of unexposed film so it won’t get fogged by x-rays, no matter > how much they *insist* it is "safe"…

It is safe. I have had hundreds of rolls of film inspected by the x-ray machines at check-in stations in the United States and Europe without any problem at all. In this day and age its a moot point for me though because I shoot digital now.

Response:

I *dared* to order a ’special’ low-fat in flight meal too!  The last vestige of gratuitous gastronomical transcontinental flight perks… <Bwahahaha> Tim K – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You may want to plan a meal after you go thru security.  The extra time > makes a nice cushion for problems and  will calm you after the ordeal.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m even going to ask for the dreaded "hand inspection" of my 10 rolls > (400asa) of unexposed film so it won’t get fogged by x-rays, no matter > how much they *insist* it is "safe"… > A few times maybe… add in all the times at museum and attraction > Tim K  <bwahahaha> >>I’ll just brave the security screening this year; NOthing is going > to be >>checked…  I’ll make sure I’ve got my allotment of matches anyway; > Two >>hole packs in lieu of a disposable lighter; not to forget my blunt >>scissors and miniature nail trimmer… bwahahaha…<g> >>Tim K >I dare you to try and take 10 sets of metal knitting needles through >

You may want to plan a meal after you go thru security.  The extra time makes a nice cushion for problems and  will calm you after the ordeal.

Response:

I’m even going to ask for the dreaded "hand inspection" of my 10 rolls (400asa) of unexposed film so it won’t get fogged by x-rays, no matter how much they *insist* it is "safe"… A few times maybe… add in all the times at museum and attraction Tim K  <bwahahaha> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll just brave the security screening this year; NOthing is going to be > checked…  I’ll make sure I’ve got my allotment of matches anyway; Two > hole packs in lieu of a disposable lighter; not to forget my blunt > scissors and miniature nail trimmer… bwahahaha…<g> > Tim K > I dare you to try and take 10 sets of metal knitting needles through

Response:

> I’ll just brave the security screening this year; NOthing is going to be > checked…  I’ll make sure I’ve got my allotment of matches anyway; Two > hole packs in lieu of a disposable lighter; not to forget my blunt > scissors and miniature nail trimmer… bwahahaha…<g> > Tim K

I dare you to try and take 10 sets of metal knitting needles through

Response:

I’ll just brave the security screening this year; NOthing is going to be checked…  I’ll make sure I’ve got my allotment of matches anyway; Two hole packs in lieu of a disposable lighter; not to forget my blunt scissors and miniature nail trimmer… bwahahaha…<g> Tim K – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we > now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to > anyone else? > Yes. Iberia, LGW->MAD->RIO->SCL, with bags checked all the way through. > Someone stole a lightweight waterproof jacket from my wife’s rucksack. > We deliberately used old rather battered rucksacks for the trip and we > were a bit dismayed that something we needed for the trip had gone > missing, especially as we planned to do quite a bit more air travel in > Chile and Argentina. > We tied up the zips with bits of string and trimmed the ends so that > they would have to be cut off rather than untied, and we didn’t lose > anything else. > — > Simon Elliott    http://www.ctsn.co.uk

Response:

Pete, Thanks for your reply. Some thoughts: >Who would watch the cameras?

They would be recorded to tape, like most other cameras you pass at the ATM, 7-11, elevator, traffic intersection, hospital… >And are they going to cover the whole route?

At least the key points. A decent video camera and tape recorder will run you $300. There should be cameras at any point people are freely rummaging through checked luggage. In my girlfriend’s case, the thief examined the contents of her suitcase, chose the two best items (which together would have filled a backpack), and walked out of the airport with them. This is evidence to me of outrageous security lapses. >Inside the cargo hold as well?

I guess the question is: When you board your next plane, do you want a secure or insecure cargo hold? Planes already have cameras, though I’m not sure about in the cargo hold. If this is a place where large items can be stolen (and perhaps bombs placed) with impunity, then yes. Every bus in my city has a camera. Planes should too. >With the recent requirement by TSA to send checked baggage unlocked

(or with TSA-approved combo locks which amounts to the same thing), it’s a lot easier for theft to occur. Exactly, before we always locked our suitcases. The TSA changed the rules so I can’t secure my bag, but they refuse to make sure it’s secure. >Just make a claim and the airline will make all the right noises and

pay up. Thanks, that’s what we’re doing. But we also want the problem fixed. >Theft from checked luggage is rare

In Seattle alone it was $689,427 over a two year period. See: http://www.katu.com/stories/73487.html . How many $300 cameras can you buy for that kind of money? Burt

Response:

> While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we > now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to > anyone else?

Yes. Iberia, LGW->MAD->RIO->SCL, with bags checked all the way through. Someone stole a lightweight waterproof jacket from my wife’s rucksack. We deliberately used old rather battered rucksacks for the trip and we were a bit dismayed that something we needed for the trip had gone missing, especially as we planned to do quite a bit more air travel in Chile and Argentina. We tied up the zips with bits of string and trimmed the ends so that they would have to be cut off rather than untied, and we didn’t lose anything else. — Simon Elliott    http://www.ctsn.co.uk

Response:

What make you so sure that it wasn’t the security officers that ‘confiscated’ the clothes? As for explosive. Any explosive put in the aircrafts is ‘authorized’ by airport security. No, make that it’s ‘authorized’ to be strapped inside the body of the aircraft, since that if it’s put in the cargo hold of the aircraft it wouldn’t severly damage the aircraft.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My girlfriend had a favorite skirt disappear a couple of years > ago on a CHO-ORD flight connecting through IAD (which > is otherwise our preferred United connection versus CLT). > It was an expensive Banana Republic number. > I remember seeing her pack it in Chicago, her sister looked for > it high and low in Virginia.  It could only have gotten pulled > along the way. > gld >While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we >now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to >anyone else? Does anyone know if there are indeed cameras out the >luggage route?

Who would watch the cameras? And are they going to cover the whole route? Inside the cargo hold as well? Theft from checked luggage is rare, and so long as the thieves are reasonably discreet and don’t get too greedy, all but impossible to trace. An airline or airport would happily pay the occasional claim rather than pay for full time security officers and a camera system. Unless it became cost-effective for them to do so. With the recent requirement by TSA to send checked baggage unlocked (or with TSA-approved combo locks which amounts to the same thing), it’s a lot easier for theft to occur. Just make a claim and the airline will make all the right noises and pay up. Pete

Response:

My girlfriend had a favorite skirt disappear a couple of years ago on a CHO-ORD flight connecting through IAD (which is otherwise our preferred United connection versus CLT). It was an expensive Banana Republic number. I remember seeing her pack it in Chicago, her sister looked for it high and low in Virginia.  It could only have gotten pulled along the way. gld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we >now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to >anyone else? Does anyone know if there are indeed cameras out the >luggage route? >Thanks, >Burt

Response:

My girlfriend just returned on an American Airlines flight from Boston to San Francisco. Two leather jackets and a shirt are missing from her luggage. I’m shocked- there must be no camera survalence or security on the route her luggage took to or from the plane. If these areas are insecure enough to steal bulky jackets, I doubt it would be hard to smuggle in an explosive. While we obviously wouldn’t put valuables in our luggage, I guess we now have to worry about our clothes as well. Has this happened to anyone else? Does anyone know if there are indeed cameras out the luggage route? Thanks, Burt

Response:

Question:

>Can anyone tell me if there’s a British Airways home page that can be >accessed through LYNX ? (or a database containg Airline data, such as the >number of flights each airline makes between B.C. and London. I’m currently >attending a travel college that requires me to do a class project. My >project is actually an assignment to convince tourist to visit London, >but I’d like to do a little more that a basic brochure.

Try http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/misc/uk/london.html for a lot of info on London. BA home page, will be up by end August – URL not clear yet, as Bell Atlantic got www.ba.com! If you want flight schedules – try one of the travel agency sites such as PCTravel ot Internet Travel Network (find them in Yahoo).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cook) writes: >Can anyone tell me if there’s a British Airways home page that can be >accessed through LYNX ? (or a database containg Airline data, such as the >number of flights each airline makes between B.C. and London. I’m currently >attending a travel college that requires me to do a class project. My >project is actually an assignment to convince tourist to visit London, >but I’d like to do a little more that a basic brochure. >Try http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/misc/uk/london.html for a lot of info on London. BA home page, >will be up by end August – URL not clear yet, as Bell Atlantic got www.ba.com! >If you want flight schedules – try one of the travel agency sites such as PCTravel >ot Internet Travel Network (find them in Yahoo).

Did you ever think about http://www.ba.co.uk?  (After all, they are in the UK :>)   (anxiously awaiting the world favourite airline online…) –Jake Allan

Response:

Can anyone tell me if there’s a British Airways home page that can be accessed through LYNX ? (or a database containg Airline data, such as the number of flights each airline makes between B.C. and London. I’m currently attending a travel college that requires me to do a class project. My project is actually an assignment to convince tourist to visit London, but I’d like to do a little more that a basic brochure.

Response:

As far as I am aware, BA will have a home page soon.  I imagine it will be accessible using any browser….but switch to Netscape, its the best. — Best Regards, Addison Schonland Phone (619) 637-4000 Fax (619) 637-4040

Response:

[This followup was posted to rec.travel.air and a copy was sent to the cited author.]  I had BA cancell my flight on the concorde and they didn’t bother to call me. Hmmm I was thrilled when I got to the airport.  "no you dont need to reconfirm" said the BA agents that I spoke to…..

Response:

That’s also what they say on their web site. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [This followup was posted to rec.travel.air and a copy was sent to the > cited author.] >  I had BA cancell my flight on the concorde and they didn’t bother to > call me. Hmmm I was thrilled when I got to the airport. >  "no you dont need to reconfirm" said the BA agents that I spoke to…..

Response:

[This followup was posted to rec.travel.air and a copy was sent to the cited author.] @aol.com says… > Sorry to hear about your BA problems.  BTW, what city is ARN?

ARN is Stockholm – ARlaNda. /P-O — Per-Olof Litby Product Mgr, Microsoft Nordic, Box 27, 16493 Kista, Sweden Mobile +46 70 452-2885 As I have discovered by examining my past, I started out as a child.

Response:

Stockholm-Arlanda, Sweden. Also known as ESSA. -Preston – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > … > Sorry to hear about your BA problems.  BTW, what city is ARN?

Response:

> I just got back from my LAX-LHR-ARN flight on BA, and this time they didn’t > cancel any flights But, on the other hand, they lost my bags. > This is the third time in a row BA screws up. The previous times: > December 1998, LAX-LHR-ARN: They lost my bags, got them back after christmas… > January 1999, ARN-LHR-LAX: The first flight was cancelled because of technical problems, so I was rerouted ARN-LHR-JFK-LAX and was supposed to be able to > take the late flight from JFK so I would arrive at LAX _only_ 8 hours late. > Of course, the LHR-JFK flight was delayed (technical problems), so I had to > spend the night in NY. Arrived in LA approx. 20 hours later than I was > supposed to do. > Anyone else who has bad experiences from BA?

Sounds like par for the course to me. — Regards from Bill a.k.a.

Response:

My Friends had the same expierience in January, flying to YVR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just got back from my LAX-LHR-ARN flight on BA, and this time they didn’t > cancel any flights But, on the other hand, they lost my bags. > This is the third time in a row BA screws up. The previous times: > December 1998, LAX-LHR-ARN: They lost my bags, got them back after christmas… > January 1999, ARN-LHR-LAX: The first flight was cancelled because of technical problems, so I was rerouted ARN-LHR-JFK-LAX and was supposed to be able to > take the late flight from JFK so I would arrive at LAX _only_ 8 hours late. > Of course, the LHR-JFK flight was delayed (technical problems), so I had to > spend the night in NY. Arrived in LA approx. 20 hours later than I was > supposed to do. > Anyone else who has bad experiences from BA?

Response:

I just got back from my LAX-LHR-ARN flight on BA, and this time they didn’t cancel any flights But, on the other hand, they lost my bags. This is the third time in a row BA screws up. The previous times: December 1998, LAX-LHR-ARN: They lost my bags, got them back after christmas… January 1999, ARN-LHR-LAX: The first flight was cancelled because of technical problems, so I was rerouted ARN-LHR-JFK-LAX and was supposed to be able to take the late flight from JFK so I would arrive at LAX _only_ 8 hours late. Of course, the LHR-JFK flight was delayed (technical problems), so I had to spend the night in NY. Arrived in LA approx. 20 hours later than I was supposed to do. Anyone else who has bad experiences from BA?

Response:

>I just got back from my LAX-LHR-ARN flight on BA, and this time they didn’t >cancel any flights But, on the other hand, they lost my bags. >This is the third time in a row BA screws up. The previous times:

<snip> Begs the question, why do ytou continue flying with them instead of SAS, or are you tied to them by miles or company policy? replace royaumeuni with the abbreviation of the U_nited K_ingdom of England, Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland  to reply

Response:

Fortunately I have had nothing but good experiences with BA.  I usually travel the EWR-LHR-LGW-VRN route. Even with the transfer from LHR to LGW I have never had any problems.  The flights to Verona are quick and easy and are never crowded. Sorry to hear about your BA problems.  BTW, what city is ARN?

Response:

I have flown on British Airways from the US to France, Germany and England in the past.  All of the British Airways legs were staffed by friendly people who did have the British style that BA is famous for. I fly US Airways often in the US and have usually good experiences there as well but sometimes get the F/A from hell or a gate agent who has had a rough year, etc.  But the bottom line has been that most people are concerned about making the customer happy. I just try to take whatever comes my way and roll with it.  I wouldn’t give up on British Airways if I were you because they are a great airline, IMHO, and can provide good service. John Gray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just returned from England and one of the legs on my trip (Manchester > to Heathrow) involved a BA flight.  The contrast with all my other > flights this trip (on United Airlines) was dramatic.  The agent on check > in was extremely rude to my wife; I asked a question of another agent > and was met with an annoyed stare and a terse remark; the reading of the > emergency procedures on the plane was bizarre in its’ lack of any > feeling; the "snack" was horrible; the general attitude of the > attendants ranged from bored to just plain rude. > The whole experience was in such contrast to the overall demeanor of the > British people and the United Airlines staff.  I had figured that > British Airways would reflect the efficiency, friendliness and courtesy > that I experienced throughout all of my stays in England. > I was wrong, and won’t make the mistake again. > Thanx > Stan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just returned from England and one of the legs on my trip > (Manchester > to Heathrow) involved a BA flight.  The contrast with all my other > flights this trip (on United Airlines) was dramatic.  The agent on > check > in was extremely rude to my wife; I asked a question of another agent > and was met with an annoyed stare and a terse remark; the reading of > the > emergency procedures on the plane was bizarre in its’ lack of any > feeling; the "snack" was horrible; the general attitude of the > attendants ranged from bored to just plain rude. > The whole experience was in such contrast to the overall demeanor of > the > British people and the United Airlines staff.  I had figured that > British Airways would reflect the efficiency, friendliness and > courtesy > that I experienced throughout all of my stays in England. > I was wrong, and won’t make the mistake again. > Thanx > Stan

Are there two British Airways??? The folks here in Houston and on flights to & from Gatwick have always been quite pleasant.  The flights are crowded in summer & the staff are sometimes harried but quite pleasant. Frank Matthews

Response:

I just returned from England and one of the legs on my trip (Manchester to Heathrow) involved a BA flight.  The contrast with all my other flights this trip (on United Airlines) was dramatic.  The agent on check in was extremely rude to my wife; I asked a question of another agent and was met with an annoyed stare and a terse remark; the reading of the emergency procedures on the plane was bizarre in its’ lack of any feeling; the "snack" was horrible; the general attitude of the attendants ranged from bored to just plain rude.   The whole experience was in such contrast to the overall demeanor of the British people and the United Airlines staff.  I had figured that British Airways would reflect the efficiency, friendliness and courtesy that I experienced throughout all of my stays in England. I was wrong, and won’t make the mistake again. Thanx Stan

Response:

>you that probably a million others just like it have been written about >every airline. When you are traveling AD50/75 ID90 you are gonna get a >back seat at the end of the shift/the last flight whatever. You just >simply shouldn’t expect to get treated like a revenue passenger. Pay >Anyway, it’s been going that way for many years…and it’s probably not >gonna change.

Sad, but true. I don’t think it’s anything to do with what you pay, though. More of a culture thing. Us Brits just aren’t as good at customer service as Americans, not usually. Last trip I made on BA was a cut-rate fare, and my "window seat" going out was beside a blank wall, while the return trip was in "steerage" with the off-duty stewardesses etc. (Not that I minded – and the fare was right). But the contrast with free (frequent flyer) trips on NorthWest was considerable. —

Response:

> Well certainly if you want your letter to receive any attention at all > you shouldn’t post it in some obscure corner of the net.  You should > bring it right out into the bright daylight where everyone can see it. > There, I’ve done you the favor.  I think your letter deserves it.

Truthfully there is really no point in such a letter because I assure you that probably a million others just like it have been written about every airline. When you are traveleing AD50/75 ID90 you are gonna get a back seat at the end of the shift/the last flight whatever. You just simply shouldn’t expect to get treated like a revenue passenger. Pay full price and you WILL get treated like one. They know that your dissatisfaction isn’t really gonna change how much business you do with them in the long run. If that was the case then agents here in the US would have put DL out of business years ago just out of spite. They have what you need and a lot of the time you can’t make your passengers use another carrier. Anyway, it’s been going that way for many years…and it’s probably not gonna change. Andrew Williams Global Link Travel Network

Response:

>Oh No!  I just booked my flight to France on British Airways.   Oh well, I >guess I can survive 2 flights, but hope it’s better when I fly than what you >experienced

I flew with BA last week, and had nothing to complain about. In fact, I have trouble finding any real difference between any of the airlines. Perhaps I am too focussed on getting to my destination than worrying about adequate locker space. (…and I have certainly flown enough of them!) — — DFM – http://www.deepfriedmars.com — —

Response:

>I just feel he’s making a big fuss over nothing. So what if they let >everyone board at once? He had just as much time to find his way onto the >plane as everyone else. He’s the one who decided to wait until most of the >other passengers had boarded. No one was holding him back. >Richard

Considering what the stupid tw(vowel)t wrote, its patently obvious that he is not a very regular air traveller.

Response:

And I’ve seen *very few* rude FA’s on any airline.  But most seem to get a bit testy when someone gets loud & obnoxious. I flew last summer from Dammam, Saudi Arabia to Frankfurt on Lufthansa with my cat in business class.  The leg from Dammam to Dubai was fine, the flight attendents were very friendly.  At Dubai, the crew was changed, and at first they were also very friendly, that is, until they asked me if I would change from my window to another aisle seat.  Not wishing to further strain the cat, I declined.  After that, I was virtually ignored.  It had nothing to do with my behavior, it was just because I wouldn’t go along with their request.  I find some people in the airline industry unwilling to be helpful, and many down right obnoxious. Once when flying to Steamboat Springs from Denver on United Express, it was foggy in the morning and flights were delayed or canceled.  The staff made no effort at all (actually virtually refused to help) to get on another flight.  After making several inquiries over several hours and getting no response except just wait, I noticed flights departing again to Steamboat Springs.  Counting the number of passengers, I realized that they were only half full.  I went up and inquired again, and they sent me to another gate where I got a boarding pass immediately.  The person in front of me asked innocently about his luggage, and the woman at the counter exploded and virtually accused him of assaulting her, and said something about not allowing him on the plane because of his obnoxious behavior.  She was the only obnoxious one.  If she had been a man, and he didn’t slug her, I would have. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, and I was going to also ask the same question.  I can’t imagine letting anybody like that deal with the public.  And when I got to Steamboat Springs, there was my suitcase sitting in the middle of the floor, probably for hours, waiting for somebody to walk off with it. George

Response:

That is odd, I have flown with BA, Luftansa, AA, Continental, and US Air, and BA was one of the best experiences other than Luftansa. My last transcontinental flight was in 1998. Has flying become such an ordeal in 7 years? Anyone else have the same experiences with BA?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> April 1, 2005 > Mr.Martin Broughton > Chairman > British Airways PLC > Waterside > PO Box 365 > Harmondsworth, West Drayton > Middlesex UB7 0GB > Dear Mr. Broughton: > Re: British Airways service > My wife and I went to Venice on March 7 for a few days to celebrate our > wedding anniversary.  We had a very good time and thoroughly enjoyed > ourselves.  Unfortunately we travelled on British Airways which was not > enjoyable. > Most airlines have worked out that it is more convenient for passengers to > be boarded by rows so that people who sit close to the front of the plane > don

Question:

:>>What’s the issue with batteries? I’ve never encountered anything of that :>>nature, thankfully. :>If the batteries are not in the item, the theory is it cannot operate. Very :>easy to make a PDA for example which still works the trigger for a device. Much easier to use a laptop as a trigger. Nobody that I know of has been requested to remove the battery from a laptop. :>It comes down in the end to balancing the risk against the inconvenience. — http://www.dissensoftware.com Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies.

Response:

:>>>> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or :>>>> other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked :>>>> luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, :>>>> this is in the Photo newsgroup. :>>> A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery :>>> charger but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they :>>> allow me to use the power outlet in the security screening room to :>>> recharge the battery before they took the charger away). They would not :>>> allow it to travel in checked luggage either, but they did have it (along :>>> with my equally fearsome toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a :>>> couple days later. :>> Excuse my ignorance – but why? What is the security hazard? :>As best I could figure, the hazard was that if they didn’t invent new ways :>to harass me at every turn, I might come back for another visit at some :>future point. You were probably acting like the typical European assh*le visiting Israel. What is the current objection to Jews defending themselves from terrorists? :>(Slightly) more to the point, every time I asked a question like that, I was :>told that they cannot discuss any of their security policies. Why assist the enemy? — http://www.dissensoftware.com Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies.

Response:

>>What’s the issue with batteries? I’ve never encountered anything of that >nature, thankfully. > If the batteries are not in the item, the theory is it cannot operate. Very > easy to make a PDA for example which still works the trigger for a device. > It comes down in the end to balancing the risk against the inconvenience.

If they start mucking with camera batteries life will get very difficult.  It could put me completely off traveling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> –   > Lansbury > www.uk-air.net > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

>> A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery > charger but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they > allow me to use the power outlet in the security screening room to > recharge the battery before they took the charger away). They would not > allow it to travel in checked luggage either, but they did have it (along > with my equally fearsome toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a > couple days later. > Did they give you a reason for their interest in those items?  Just > curious.

Nope – they were pretty chatty in general (I spent several hours with them so there was ample chance to get chummy) but would clam up when I asked anything substantive about the security process itself. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

>Tends to cloud ones judgment a bit, knowing you are responsible if you get it >wrong. Stuff the inconvenience I will always go on the side of safety.

But one does wonder why there are so few anecdotes about how successful all this inconvenience has been in increasing safety. Eventually, I expect we’ll all have to strip off and fly naked, despite the obvious inconvenience, as it will be the only way to guarantee we aren’t carrying any objects that might compromise safety. (We are halfway there with these new body scanners). — Roland Perry

Response:

>>It comes down in the end to balancing the risk against the inconvenience. >And yet those "in power" seem very bad at assessing the inconvenience >factor.

Maybe, but very good at assessing just how much all those people with a first class honours degree in hindsight will come to the fore and be only too willing to point the finger if you get it wrong. Tends to cloud ones judgment a bit, knowing you are responsible if you get it wrong. Stuff the inconvenience I will always go on the side of safety. –   Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or > other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked > luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, > this is in the Photo newsgroup. > A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery charger > but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they allow me to > use the power outlet in the security screening room to recharge the battery > before they took the charger away). They would not allow it to travel in > checked luggage either, but they did have it (along with my equally fearsome > toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a couple days later. > miguel > — > Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu > Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Did they give you a reason for their interest in those items?  Just curious.

Response:

>It comes down in the end to balancing the risk against the inconvenience.

And yet those "in power" seem very bad at assessing the inconvenience factor. If you have a TV remote control in your baggage [yes, I have had one] then the inconvenience of removing the battery is very slight. If you have a PDA whose data is held by a battery (to old or cheap to have flash or HDD storage) then removing that battery is tantamount to criminal damage. — Roland Perry

Response:

>>I dunno, it was mid 90’s and the checking was done in their checkin area >which was a very claustrophobic "cave" inside T3 >Might have been, can’t remember for sure when the company, an outside >contractor not United I should stress, failed the tests. Would have been >97/98ish so might well have been the same lot. This was the pre-checkin >security.

Having looked it up: November 92. (An interesting trip – I flew to Los Angeles to interview Larry Ellison [Oracle] for a glossy magazine; but he changed his plans and flew to London, so we missed one another. Doesn’t feel like 12 years ago.) — Roland Perry

Response:

>What’s the issue with batteries? I’ve never encountered anything of that >nature, thankfully.

If the batteries are not in the item, the theory is it cannot operate. Very easy to make a PDA for example which still works the trigger for a device. It comes down in the end to balancing the risk against the inconvenience. –   Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

>I dunno, it was mid 90’s and the checking was done in their checkin area >which was a very claustrophobic "cave" inside T3

Might have been, can’t remember for sure when the company, an outside contractor not United I should stress, failed the tests. Would have been 97/98ish so might well have been the same lot. This was the pre-checkin security. –   Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries > for your digital camera, or other devices, > you might want to consider packing them in your > checked luggage. Some reports of batteries being > confiscated in some airports, this is in the Photo > newsgroup.

I have traveled throughout the United States on several air carriers with recharagable batteries in my carry-on luggage. Not once has anyone made the slightest issue of it. I can’t comment about air travel outside the United States though, in that regard.

Response:

> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries > for your digital camera, or other devices, > you might want to consider packing them in your > checked luggage. Some reports of batteries being > confiscated in some airports, this is in the Photo > newsgroup.

Last summer flying back home from MBJ on US Airways I had an unopened package of 8 AA alkaline batteries in my carryon and was told the limit was 6.  Had to open it up and give 2 batteries to the security agent before they let me through.

Response:

What’s the issue with batteries? I’ve never encountered anything of that nature, thankfully. ant

Response:

>About four years ago on a trip to Colombia, South America on Avianca >Airlines from Miami I had some loose double A batteries in my checked >baggage.

Hi A few years ago, I passed through Houston on the way to Central America, with quite a lot of spare batteries in my carry-on baggage – we were going for nearly a month and I didn’t want to risk running out of camera batteries/torch batteries/alarm batteries etc. in the middle of the jungle. Presumably because of these batteries, as my rucksack emerged from the X-Ray machine a security guy seized the rucksack, grabbed my shoulder and more or less frog-marched me (protesting) to a table some distance away to be searched.  He refused to let me speak; just shouted me down every time I opened my mouth.  The reason for my "protests" and attempts to speak was that I had spotted – he obviously hadn’t – that one strap of my rucksack had caught in the workings of the X-Ray machine and was unravelling a strong, thin nylon thread across the airport.   As the ensuing chaos spread – just think ten pin bowling alleys – and more and more people tripped over the nylon thread, falling in a heap, my wife quietly pretended I wasn’t with her!!! Eventually, the line snapped, security were happy with the contents of my rucksack and let me continue on my journey. It caused utter and complete chaos for a few minutes though; I don’t think anyone apart from myself – and my wife – knew what had caused it (we both decided a discrete silence would be the best policy). Regards KGB

Response:

|> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or |> other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked |> luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, |> this is in the Photo newsgroup. | |A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery charger |but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they allow me to |use the power outlet in the security screening room to recharge the battery |before they took the charger away). They would not allow it to travel in |checked luggage either, but they did have it (along with my equally fearsome |toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a couple days later. | |miguel Excuse my ignorance – but why? What is the security hazard? Cheers, Alan

Response:

>>Years ago I had my hand luggage subjected to a "random" check by United >at LHR, and they insisted I remove the dry cells from my PDA (in my >pocket) and put them in my checked luggage. >I wonder if that was the company before the one they use now. They were so bad >I don’t think any company has failed random security checks so badly. United >were more or less forced to cancel their contract and employ another company >on the spot.

I dunno, it was mid 90’s and the checking was done in their checkin area which was a very claustrophobic "cave" inside T3. They offered me two alternatives: take out the batteries or don’t fly. I’ve never been able to determine what risk they had in mind or whose authority they were operating under. — Roland Perry

Response:

About four years ago on a trip to Colombia, South America on Avianca Airlines from Miami I had some loose double A batteries in my checked baggage. When it was time to board, my name was called and the gate attendant advised me that I was being denied permission to board the flight because they had apparently X-rayed my checked luggage and detected loose bullets in the luggage. After explaining to her that what they saw on the X-rays were in fact batteries she notified a supervisor who requested that I return back to the baggage check in area. After explaining the circumstances to him he cleared me to fly and I ran back to the gate for my flight. Luckily they delayed the departure long enough for me to return to the gate. My luggage arrived in Colombia two days later and the batteries were still there.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or >> other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked >> luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, >> this is in the Photo newsgroup. > A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery > charger but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they > allow me to use the power outlet in the security screening room to > recharge the battery before they took the charger away). They would not > allow it to travel in checked luggage either, but they did have it (along > with my equally fearsome toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a > couple days later. > Excuse my ignorance – but why? What is the security hazard?

As best I could figure, the hazard was that if they didn’t invent new ways to harass me at every turn, I might come back for another visit at some future point. (Slightly) more to the point, every time I asked a question like that, I was told that they cannot discuss any of their security policies. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

>A few weeks ago at LHR I had my luggage screened before checkin, I was asked >to remove all batteries from the things in my checked luggage and take the >batteries in my hand-luggage. > Were these *all* the batteries (including things like button cells in > watches), just rechargeable ones (such as in a laptop or mobile phone), > or just the dry cells (eg in a Walkman).

All  I declared was the AA duracell battery type batteries, I had forgotten about the button cell battery in my little alarm clock.

Response:

>Years ago I had my hand luggage subjected to a "random" check by United >at LHR, and they insisted I remove the dry cells from my PDA (in my >pocket) and put them in my checked luggage.

I wonder if that was the company before the one they use now. They were so bad I don’t think any company has failed random security checks so badly. United were more or less forced to cancel their contract and employ another company on the spot. –   Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or > other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked > luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, > this is in the Photo newsgroup.

A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery charger but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they allow me to use the power outlet in the security screening room to recharge the battery before they took the charger away). They would not allow it to travel in checked luggage either, but they did have it (along with my equally fearsome toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a couple days later. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or > other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked > luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, > this is in the Photo newsgroup. > A few weeks ago, security at Tel Aviv airport confiscated my battery charger > but not the battery that it went with (in fact, I insisted they allow me to > use the power outlet in the security screening room to recharge the battery > before they took the charger away). They would not allow it to travel in > checked luggage either, but they did have it (along with my equally fearsome > toothpaste and deodorant) delivered to my home a couple days later. > miguel

A few weeks ago at LHR I had my luggage screened before checkin, I was asked to remove all batteries from the things in my checked luggage and take the batteries in my hand-luggage.

Response:

>A few weeks ago at LHR I had my luggage screened before checkin, I was asked >to remove all batteries from the things in my checked luggage and take the >batteries in my hand-luggage.

Were these *all* the batteries (including things like button cells in watches), just rechargeable ones (such as in a laptop or mobile phone), or just the dry cells (eg in a Walkman). Years ago I had my hand luggage subjected to a "random" check by United at LHR, and they insisted I remove the dry cells from my PDA (in my pocket) and put them in my checked luggage. This was a brave thing to ask as all the data was then only held by virtue of the backup button cell. Of course, the PDA had all the data in it about my schedule, where I was staying and so on, which was needed in-flight to fill out the immigration slips. As well as being my only "watch" to tell the time, and the device on which I was intending to spend some time writing memos on the journey. So I felt justified in buying replacement dry cells at the airside shop. — Roland Perry

Response:

If you carry spare re-chargeable batteries for your digital camera, or other devices, you might want to consider packing them in your checked luggage. Some reports of batteries being confiscated in some airports, this is in the Photo newsgroup.

Response:

Question:

Subject to Bush’s Knife: Aid for Food and Heating By ROBERT PEAR (New York Times) WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Under President Bush’s budget, many food stamp recipients, farmers, veterans, small-business owners, nursing students, air travelers and Amtrak passengers would have to pay more or would receive less from the government. One indication of new priorities is Mr. Bush’s proposal to end the Community Services Block Grant, a $637 million program that helps pay for community action agencies begun more than 35 years ago as part of the fight against poverty. The agencies provide housing, nutrition, education and employment services to low-income people. But the Bush administration said the program had been "unable to demonstrate results." The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which helps people pay their heating bills, would be cut 8.4 percent, to $2 billion. Michael O. Leavitt, the new secretary of health and human services, defended Mr. Bush’s proposal to cut the budget of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, including grants to help state and local agencies prepare for bioterror attacks. He said Mr. Bush had significantly increased such aid since 2001. But the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, representing health officers of the 50 states, said the cuts would "leave the nation vulnerable to public health emergencies," including bioterrorist attacks and infectious disease. In Medicaid, the federal-state health program for more than 50 million people, Mr. Bush is seeking changes that he says will save $60 billion over the next 10 years. Lawrence A. McAndrews, president of the National Association of Children’s Hospitals, said the cuts would force many hospitals to reduce or eliminate services. Medicaid accounts for more than 40 percent of the revenue at such hospitals, he said, and "the care of all children, not just those on Medicaid, would be affected by the reduction of services." The president would also cut $100 million from a $301 million program that trains doctors at children’s hospitals. He would cut the budget for training other health professionals by 64 percent, to $160.5 million.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Subject to Bush’s Knife: Aid for Food and Heating > By ROBERT PEAR > (New York Times) > WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Under President Bush’s budget, many food stamp recipients, > farmers, veterans, small-business owners, nursing students, air travelers and > Amtrak passengers would have to pay more or would receive less from the > government. > One indication of new priorities is Mr. Bush’s proposal to end the Community > Services Block Grant, a $637 million program that helps pay for community > action agencies begun more than 35 years ago as part of the fight against > poverty. > The agencies provide housing, nutrition, education and employment services to > low-income people. But the Bush administration said the program had been > "unable to demonstrate results." > The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which helps people pay their > heating bills, would be cut 8.4 percent, to $2 billion. > Michael O. Leavitt, the new secretary of health and human services, defended > Mr. Bush’s proposal to cut the budget of the Centers for Disease Control and > Prevention, including grants to help state and local agencies prepare for > bioterror attacks. He said Mr. Bush had significantly increased such aid since > 2001. > But the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, representing > health officers of the 50 states, said the cuts would "leave the nation > vulnerable to public health emergencies," including bioterrorist attacks and > infectious disease. > In Medicaid, the federal-state health program for more than 50 million people, > Mr. Bush is seeking changes that he says will save $60 billion over the next 10 > years. > Lawrence A. McAndrews, president of the National Association of Children’s > Hospitals, said the cuts would force many hospitals to reduce or eliminate > services. Medicaid accounts for more than 40 percent of the revenue at such > hospitals, he said, and "the care of all children, not just those on Medicaid, > would be affected by the reduction of services." > The president would also cut $100 million from a $301 million program that > trains doctors at children’s hospitals. He would cut the budget for training > other health professionals by 64 percent, to $160.5 million.

Shit according to one genius who posts in this cesspool regularly poor people only represent 5 per cent of the population and "make out like bandits". Bush’s supporters, at least his favourite chosen people are the "haves" and "have mores". You know, like those greedy cocksuckers who ran Enron into the shitter. Bush has the singular talent of being able to fall head first into a pool of festering pig shit and come out smelling like a rose. He should have been impeached as a war criminal, but he’s still hanging on and his approval rating is actually going up. Abso-fucking-lutely amazing. Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject to Bush’s Knife: Aid for Food and Heating >By ROBERT PEAR >(New York Times) >WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Under President Bush’s budget, many food stamp > recipients, >farmers, veterans, small-business owners, nursing students, air > travelers and >Amtrak passengers would have to pay more or would receive less from > the >government. >One indication of new priorities is Mr. Bush’s proposal to end the > Community >Services Block Grant, a $637 million program that helps pay for > community >action agencies begun more than 35 years ago as part of the fight > against >poverty. >The agencies provide housing, nutrition, education and employment > services to >low-income people. But the Bush administration said the program had > been >"unable to demonstrate results." >The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which helps people pay > their >heating bills, would be cut 8.4 percent, to $2 billion. >Michael O. Leavitt, the new secretary of health and human services, > defended >Mr. Bush’s proposal to cut the budget of the Centers for Disease > Control and >Prevention, including grants to help state and local agencies prepare > for >bioterror attacks. He said Mr. Bush had significantly increased such > aid since >2001. >But the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, > representing >health officers of the 50 states, said the cuts would "leave the > nation >vulnerable to public health emergencies," including bioterrorist > attacks and >infectious disease. >In Medicaid, the federal-state health program for more than 50 > million people, >Mr. Bush is seeking changes that he says will save $60 billion over > the next 10 >years. >Lawrence A. McAndrews, president of the National Association of > Children’s >Hospitals, said the cuts would force many hospitals to reduce or > eliminate >services. Medicaid accounts for more than 40 percent of the revenue > at such >hospitals, he said, and "the care of all children, not just those on > Medicaid, >would be affected by the reduction of services." >The president would also cut $100 million from a $301 million program > that >trains doctors at children’s hospitals. He would cut the budget for > training >other health professionals by 64 percent, to $160.5 million. > Shit according to one genius who posts in this cesspool regularly poor > people only represent 5 per cent of the population and "make out like > bandits". Bush’s supporters, at least his favourite chosen people are > the "haves" and "have mores". You know, like those greedy cocksuckers > who ran Enron into the shitter. > Bush has the singular talent of being able to fall head first into a > pool of festering pig shit and come out smelling like a rose. He should > have been impeached as a war criminal, but he’s still hanging on and > his approval rating is actually going up. Abso-fucking-lutely amazing. > Bob

Hi, Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL Tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Subject to Bush’s Knife: Aid for Food and Heating >>By ROBERT PEAR >>(New York Times) >>WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Under President Bush’s budget, many food stamp > recipients, >>farmers, veterans, small-business owners, nursing students, air > travelers and >>Amtrak passengers would have to pay more or would receive less from > the >>government. >>One indication of new priorities is Mr. Bush’s proposal to end the > Community >>Services Block Grant, a $637 million program that helps pay for > community >>action agencies begun more than 35 years ago as part of the fight > against >>poverty. >>The agencies provide housing, nutrition, education and employment > services to >>low-income people. But the Bush administration said the program had > been >>"unable to demonstrate results." >>The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which helps people pay > their >>heating bills, would be cut 8.4 percent, to $2 billion. >>Michael O. Leavitt, the new secretary of health and human services, > defended >>Mr. Bush’s proposal to cut the budget of the Centers for Disease > Control and >>Prevention, including grants to help state and local agencies prepare > for >>bioterror attacks. He said Mr. Bush had significantly increased such > aid since >>2001. >>But the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, > representing >>health officers of the 50 states, said the cuts would "leave the > nation >>vulnerable to public health emergencies," including bioterrorist > attacks and >>infectious disease. >>In Medicaid, the federal-state health program for more than 50 > million people, >>Mr. Bush is seeking changes that he says will save $60 billion over > the next 10 >>years. >>Lawrence A. McAndrews, president of the National Association of > Children’s >>Hospitals, said the cuts would force many hospitals to reduce or > eliminate >>services. Medicaid accounts for more than 40 percent of the revenue > at such >>hospitals, he said, and "the care of all children, not just those on > Medicaid, >>would be affected by the reduction of services." >>The president would also cut $100 million from a $301 million program > that >>trains doctors at children’s hospitals. He would cut the budget for > training >>other health professionals by 64 percent, to $160.5 million. > Shit according to one genius who posts in this cesspool regularly poor > people only represent 5 per cent of the population and "make out like > bandits". Bush’s supporters, at least his favourite chosen people are > the "haves" and "have mores". You know, like those greedy cocksuckers > who ran Enron into the shitter. > Bush has the singular talent of being able to fall head first into a > pool of festering pig shit and come out smelling like a rose. He should > have been impeached as a war criminal, but he’s still hanging on and > his approval rating is actually going up. Abso-fucking-lutely amazing. > Bob > Hi, > Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL > Tony

LOL Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>Subject to Bush’s Knife: Aid for Food and Heating > >>By ROBERT PEAR > >>(New York Times) > >>WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Under President Bush’s budget, many food stamp > > recipients, > >>farmers, veterans, small-business owners, nursing students, air > > travelers and > >>Amtrak passengers would have to pay more or would receive less from > > the > >>government. > >>One indication of new priorities is Mr. Bush’s proposal to end the > > Community > >>Services Block Grant, a $637 million program that helps pay for > > community > >>action agencies begun more than 35 years ago as part of the fight > > against > >>poverty. > >>The agencies provide housing, nutrition, education and employment > > services to > >>low-income people. But the Bush administration said the program had > > been > >>"unable to demonstrate results." > >>The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, which helps people >pay > > their > >>heating bills, would be cut 8.4 percent, to $2 billion. > >>Michael O. Leavitt, the new secretary of health and human services, > > defended > >>Mr. Bush’s proposal to cut the budget of the Centers for Disease > > Control and > >>Prevention, including grants to help state and local agencies >prepare > > for > >>bioterror attacks. He said Mr. Bush had significantly increased >such > > aid since > >>2001. > >>But the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, > > representing > >>health officers of the 50 states, said the cuts would "leave the > > nation > >>vulnerable to public health emergencies," including bioterrorist > > attacks and > >>infectious disease. > >>In Medicaid, the federal-state health program for more than 50 > > million people, > >>Mr. Bush is seeking changes that he says will save $60 billion over > > the next 10 > >>years. > >>Lawrence A. McAndrews, president of the National Association of > > Children’s > >>Hospitals, said the cuts would force many hospitals to reduce or > > eliminate > >>services. Medicaid accounts for more than 40 percent of the revenue > > at such > >>hospitals, he said, and "the care of all children, not just those >on > > Medicaid, > >>would be affected by the reduction of services." > >>The president would also cut $100 million from a $301 million >program > > that > >>trains doctors at children’s hospitals. He would cut the budget for > > training > >>other health professionals by 64 percent, to $160.5 million. > > Shit according to one genius who posts in this cesspool regularly >poor > > people only represent 5 per cent of the population and "make out >like > > bandits". Bush’s supporters, at least his favourite chosen people >are > > the "haves" and "have mores". You know, like those greedy >cocksuckers > > who ran Enron into the shitter. > > Bush has the singular talent of being able to fall head first into >a > > pool of festering pig shit and come out smelling like a rose. He >should > > have been impeached as a war criminal, but he’s still hanging on >and > > his approval rating is actually going up. Abso-fucking-lutely >amazing. > > Bob > Hi, > Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL > Tony >LOL >Bob

Dumber’nyuh got a mini- boost from the Iraq election — now that Iraq is reverting to the same violent mess it was before the election, that will go away very fast.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html

Response:

> Hi, > Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL > Tony

Oh, did you read that in one of those Chinese govt-controlled  newspapers you seem to think are such reliable sources of unbiased information?

Response:

> > Hi, > Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL > Tony > Oh, did you read that in one of those Chinese govt-controlled newspapers > you seem to think are such reliable sources of unbiased information?

Fuck off, troll. Bob

Response:

> http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html

Actually, Fart Valve, I didn’t write that at all. Bob

Response:

http://www.evilgopbastards.com/

Response:

> http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html

Lard Vulva has once again regressed to his cut and paste state- must have pissed him off good. Bob

Response:

>http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html

He didn’t write that. You lied again. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Response:

>>Hi, >Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL >Tony > Oh, did you read that in one of those Chinese govt-controlled  newspapers > you seem to think are such reliable sources of unbiased information?

Hi, Is there any politicians or political system based on the truth? Name one. You don’t even know how to read/write Chinese. Mind you I am NOT Chinese. Tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Hi, >> Maybe the popularity poll is rigged TOO!, LOL >> Tony > Oh, did you read that in one of those Chinese govt-controlled   > newspapers you seem to think are such reliable sources of unbiased > information? > Hi, > Is there any politicians or political system based on the truth? > Name one.

As you know, some more than others. The Chinese Govt is a cesspool, as you also also likely know. Just because ‘politics’ often manifests itsself as advocacy for a certain point of view, that does not make all governments, or ‘political systems’ equivalent, as your post cynically implies. All due respect, and rock on.

Response:

> Hi, > Is there any politicians or political system based on the truth? > Name one. You don’t even know how to read/write Chinese. > Mind you I am NOT Chinese. > Tony

WTF? You posted not so long ago that you found the coverage of Iraq in Chinese newspapers to be enlightening, you suggested they are a better source of information than western papers.  Given that the news media in China is under the thumb of a government that does not hesitate to imprison or eliminate those it wants silenced, your views on the trustworthiness of the news media in China are absurd.  And your response to that is to point out that no political system is perfect?  Nobody said anything about perfection, but as you have chosen to live in a more-or-less free-enterprise western democracy, it would seem that you’ve already made your choice as to which form of government is better.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >Is there any politicians or political system based on the truth? >Name one. You don’t even know how to read/write Chinese. >Mind you I am NOT Chinese. >Tony > WTF? > You posted not so long ago that you found the coverage of Iraq in Chinese > newspapers to be enlightening, you suggested they are a better source of > information than western papers.  Given that the news media in China is > under the thumb of a government that does not hesitate to imprison or > eliminate those it wants silenced, your views on the trustworthiness of the > news media in China are absurd.  And your response to that is to point out > that no political system is perfect?  Nobody said anything about perfection, > but as you have chosen to live in a more-or-less free-enterprise western > democracy, it would seem that you’ve already made your choice as to which > form of government is better.

Hi, Just visit China and see their TV broadcast including CNN, BBC there. And I never said it’s enlightening. I said, it showed more than what we see at home. Censorship is everywhere as you know. I am not dumb. I can sort out things and judge myself on current issues. Tony

Response:

in message >http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html > He didn’t write that. You lied again. > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

But isn’t kinda bizarre to see Wilbur parrot himself so much lately? It’s as if his brain went in phase locked loop mode. Either that or his mind-meld with the hive mind is on auto replay. KABONG!~!~!~

Response:

> But isn’t kinda bizarre to see Wilbur parrot > himself so much lately? > It’s as if his brain went in phase locked loop > mode.

Shit. That happened decades ago.

Response:

Question:

nobody schrieb: > Sorry.  We’re already trying to stop Mexico from the very same thing, > and we really don’t have any spare jobs. > The government which you have elected is NOT trying to stop this, they > are in fact facilitating mexicans to work in the USA in order to help > the profitability of large farms in the southern USA. They operate buses > across the border to bring in mexican workers for the day and ensure > they go back to mexico at night.

Even in Germany there used to be permits (and might still be as citizens of most of the new EU member countries are still concerned by work restriction) for international every-day commuters. It was to prevent full (long-term) immigration. > Fact is that if you were to pay farm workers US standard wages, your > food would be way more expensive and you couldn’t compete against > vegetables from other countries and you’d end up importaing from > overseas instead of eating your own vegerables isntead of your current > situation where you even export some of your produce to countries such > as Canada.

The same happens with undocumented workers on Spanish or Italian farms. Regards & F’up2, ULF

Response:

>> Fact is that if you were to pay farm workers US standard wages, > your food would be way more expensive and you couldn’t compete > against vegetables from other countries >That’s quite true. And, considering that Indonesians and others >affected by the tsunami are used to earning just one or two dollars per >day, they would be tremendously grateful for anything more than that >amount. Our prices for vegetables and other goods would be reduced, >giving us more money to spend on other things and making us more >productive. And, our guest workers would be able to send some of their >money back home and help rebuild their countries.

I see.  And what about the then-disenfranchised US worker?  Why should they have to be on unemployment or subsistence to help someone enter the country and take their job? Sorry, but I didn’t elect this government.  Mr. Bush was appointed the first term and somehow bamboozled America into giving him a second term.  I’m all for isolationism, and I have given generously to charity to assist those who were suffering, but I will not allow them to take american employees’ jobs.   But, since you feel that’s OK, how about giving up your job and letting one of the proposed foreign nationals come in and take it. What will your dependents say?  I’m sure your wife and kids (if you have any, of course) will be fully supportive, and your extended family won’t brand you as a congenital idiot for the rest of your life, right? If farm workers were paid a living wage, americans would perform the work and we would not be relying on illegal aliens for the large farms and plants.  Then too, the small and independent farms and plants who earn their money honestly and pay their legal workers a decent wage would have an equal opportunity at profit.  It all balances out in the end. Contrary to popular belief, America is not here for everyone.  There are correct and legal routes to enter the nation, as well as responsibilities to fulfill in order to do so.  We welcome those who meet those standards and eschew those who do not.  If you truly feel this idea is right, then let the other industrialized nations of the world lead by example and absorb the brunt of the burdern for these people, providing jobs and a "decent living." ASA Lives! —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

Our organization, the Jobs for South Asia Coalition, is trying to determine the least expensive means to bring thousands of people from Indonesia, Thailand, or India to the U.S. (east or west coast). Originally we assumed that either a cruise ship or retrofitted oil tanker would be the least expensive method, however someone suggested that all things considered air travel would cost less. That was in this thread: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.transport.marine/msg/5ccc068… We’re asking this question as part of our proposal for a guest worker plan in which hundreds of thousands of Indonesians, Thais, Indians, and others affected by the recent tsunami could come to the U.S. to do the jobs Americans won’t do. They would receive a reasonable wage and be able to send a portion of their earnings back to those most affected by the tsunami. In exchange, the U.S. would get a willing workforce that would make us competitive with China and other low-cost producers of goods. It would truly be a win-win situation. For more information on our organization, see our temporary website at: http://jfsac.blogspot.com/ This page describes our goals in more detail: http://jfsac.blogspot.com/2005/01/welcome-to-jobs-for-south-asia.html

Response:

some stuff about "Cheapest passage for thousands of people: air or sea?", to which I would like to add the following: >We’re asking this question as part of our proposal for a guest worker >plan in which hundreds of thousands of Indonesians, Thais, Indians, and >others affected by the recent tsunami could come to the U.S. to do the >jobs Americans won’t do.

  Dream on. ) But as a mind-wank excersize, you could just contact a cruise operator and ask how much it would be to rent it out for such a trip..  Assuming it would even have the range, which is doubtful. After that check what flights cost.  Flights have the advantage that you won’t have thousands of people all arriving at some port on the West Coast and needing further transportation. Anyway, lovely post.  Gave me my laugh of the day. Presumably you’ve never seen even a single 747 arrive from Asia with loads of people having to clear immigration, ‘homeland security’ checks, etc.  I’d love to see you ferry in a hundred thousand Indonesians from Ajeh.   Should give Osama a wet dream, too. Cheers, Chanchao

Response:

> But as a mind-wank excersize, you could just contact a cruise operator and ask > how much it would be to rent it out for such a trip..  Assuming it would even > have the range, which is doubtful.

It isn’t a question of range, it is also a question of whether the ship is equipped for high sees or not. That is why for instante, The Queen Mary 2 is built very differently from normal cruise ships. Secondly, cruise ships are booked long time ahead and they charge an arm and a leg for luxury cruises. Renting such a ship for such a long journey to transport low yield pax wouldn’t be good for the cruise line. Cargo ships are not equipped to carry large number of people. Chartering 747s is far easier because you only need it for about 12 hours for 415 pax. You’re going to spent money to not only rent the 747s, but also fuel and crews and food, airport fees, taxes etc.  Taking that money to buy goods made in indonesia and give it to indonesians would help then a LOT more than bringing them to the USA to pick lettuce in a climate, language , food and way of life that is totally foreign to them.

Response:

nobody schrieb: > You’re going to spent money to not only rent the 747s, but also fuel and > crews and food, airport fees, taxes etc.  Taking that money to buy goods > made in indonesia and give it to indonesians would help then a LOT more > than bringing them to the USA to pick lettuce in a climate, language , > food and way of life that is totally foreign to them.

To me it seems that once the immigration and work permits are arranged, air transportation is cheaper. IIUC, workers from India in Arab countries normally travel by air, not sea. And this is much closer than the Tsunami region to the U.S. Regards, ULF

Response:

The cheapest way is always through sea, as it always been for thousands of years. It should be noted that the area of the South East Asia that were hardest to be damaged by the tsunami is nearby a heavy travelled sea route. Aceh for example is known "Mecca Porch" in the past. Due that in the past, small ships from many areas in South East Asia harboured there, then their passengers switched on to bigger ships, the final destination of these passengers are usually Mecca. Of course now, many (most?) people go to Mecca using airlines. If you want to transports hundreds of thousands of people, I think that the sea is the only way. The immigration can be handled when the ships are enroute to their final destination. But if you want to transport thousands (three zeros) instead of hundreds of thousands (five zeros), I think that it’s better to use air travel. Just hire a couple of An-124s, the trips might not be the most comfortable though.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The cheapest way is always through sea, as it always been for thousands >of years. >It should be noted that the area of the South East Asia that were >hardest to be damaged by the tsunami is nearby a heavy travelled sea >route. >Aceh for example is known "Mecca Porch" in the past. >Due that in the past, small ships from many areas in South East Asia >harboured there, then their passengers switched on to bigger ships, the >final destination of these passengers are usually Mecca. >Of course now, many (most?) people go to Mecca using airlines. >If you want to transports hundreds of thousands of people, I think that >the sea is the only way. >The immigration can be handled when the ships are enroute to their >final destination. >But if you want to transport thousands (three zeros) instead of >hundreds of thousands (five zeros), I think that it’s better to use air >travel. Just hire a couple of An-124s, the trips might not be the most >comfortable though.

Four flights a day in 50 A380s will transport 5 million people in a month (charter class). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany — "it’s the network…"                          "The Journey is the reward" Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Response:

> Our organization, the Jobs for South Asia Coalition, is trying to > determine the least expensive means to bring thousands of people from > Indonesia, Thailand, or India to the U.S. (east or west coast).

Why not send them to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait?  It’s closer, they have plenty of jobs local citizens won’t or can’t do, and they are muslim countries. Perfect for Indonesia citizens. > Originally we assumed that either a cruise ship or retrofitted oil > tanker would be the least expensive method, however someone suggested > that all things considered air travel would cost less. That was in this > thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.transport.marine/msg/5ccc068… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We’re asking this question as part of our proposal for a guest worker > plan in which hundreds of thousands of Indonesians, Thais, Indians, and > others affected by the recent tsunami could come to the U.S. to do the > jobs Americans won’t do. They would receive a reasonable wage and be > able to send a portion of their earnings back to those most affected by > the tsunami. In exchange, the U.S. would get a willing workforce that > would make us competitive with China and other low-cost producers of > goods. It would truly be a win-win situation. > For more information on our organization, see our temporary website at: > http://jfsac.blogspot.com/ > This page describes our goals in more detail: > http://jfsac.blogspot.com/2005/01/welcome-to-jobs-for-south-asia.html

Response:

> We’re asking this question as part of our proposal for a guest worker > plan in which hundreds of thousands of Indonesians, Thais, Indians, and > others affected by the recent tsunami could come to the U.S. to do the > jobs Americans won’t do.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND?  we already have tooooo many *illegal* immigrants driving down wages, and now you want to add more? NO FUCKING WAY.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Our organization, the Jobs for South Asia Coalition, is trying to >determine the least expensive means to bring thousands of people from >Indonesia, Thailand, or India to the U.S. (east or west coast). >Originally we assumed that either a cruise ship or retrofitted oil >tanker would be the least expensive method, however someone suggested >that all things considered air travel would cost less. That was in this >thread: >http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.transport.marine/msg/5ccc068… >We’re asking this question as part of our proposal for a guest worker >plan in which hundreds of thousands of Indonesians, Thais, Indians, and >others affected by the recent tsunami could come to the U.S. to do the >jobs Americans won’t do. They would receive a reasonable wage and be >able to send a portion of their earnings back to those most affected by >the tsunami. In exchange, the U.S. would get a willing workforce that >would make us competitive with China and other low-cost producers of >goods. It would truly be a win-win situation. >For more information on our organization, see our temporary website at: >http://jfsac.blogspot.com/ >This page describes our goals in more detail: >http://jfsac.blogspot.com/2005/01/welcome-to-jobs-for-south-asia.html

Sorry.  We’re already trying to stop Mexico from the very same thing, and we really don’t have any spare jobs. The problem this creates is that such guest workers do many jobs for far less money than an American would work for.  Any American would do any job providing it pays a living wage.  Most of the "guest workers" also avoid taxes. It’s not that we are xenophobic (like Indonesia), but we need to take care of our own people. Perhaps the easiest method for the people you are trying to help would be to apply for legitimate visas or citizenship.  Then they would be carefully vetted and only those who meet US immigration standards would be eligible to enter.  This would save yourself and your organization much embarrassment. There should be enough jobs available to these people repairing their own destroyed economies and countries.  Much of that work is sponsored by international relief and UN-style organizations. We appreciate your interest in coming to work here, but your proposed workers, their economies and the countries would be better served by employing their talents at home.  Thank you for considering the United States as an employer and we wish you success with your continuing job search. ASA Lives! —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

> Sorry.  We’re already trying to stop Mexico from the very same thing, > and we really don’t have any spare jobs.

The government which you have elected is NOT trying to stop this, they are in fact facilitating mexicans to work in the USA in order to help the profitability of large farms in the southern USA. They operate buses across the border to bring in mexican workers for the day and ensure they go back to mexico at night. Fact is that if you were to pay farm workers US standard wages, your food would be way more expensive and you couldn’t compete against vegetables from other countries and you’d end up importaing from overseas instead of eating your own vegerables isntead of your current situation where you even export some of your produce to countries such as Canada.

Response:

> Fact is that if you were to pay farm workers US standard wages, > your food would be way more expensive and you couldn’t compete > against vegetables from other countries

That’s quite true. And, considering that Indonesians and others affected by the tsunami are used to earning just one or two dollars per day, they would be tremendously grateful for anything more than that amount. Our prices for vegetables and other goods would be reduced, giving us more money to spend on other things and making us more productive. And, our guest workers would be able to send some of their money back home and help rebuild their countries.

Response:

Question:

>>Welcome to the Fifth Term of the Ronald Reagan Administration > And what does this have to do with recreational air travel?  Nothing.  Keep > it out of here.

Doesn’t have much to do with recreational travel to Europe either.  So?  This is the first time you’ve noticed that off-topic political threads make their way here from time to time?  (And not ALWAYS American politics – although IMO Bush is a greater disaster than most of the others that have been discussed here.) If you don’t choose to participate in the discussion, that’s your prerogative – but you could hardly think the thread title referred to anything else!  Why not just skip it, instead of complaining? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

||| Welcome to the Fifth Term of the Ronald Reagan Administration ||| ||| The Gipper Lives! ||| ||| Back then it was Iran/Contra ||| ||| Now it’s Iraq/Osama ||| ||| Life in the Alzheimer Era ||| ||| "Mistakes?  I didn’t make any mistakes.  And if I did I don’t ||| remember!" ||| ||| || I have just watched the Inauguration live. || In several thousand words, Bush actually said absolutely nothing. || Empty phrases. || But he did wipe off half the nation when praising the Union forces || in the ACW! || || Surreyman Bush rocks. FOUR MORE YEARS, you DEMONrat wimps.

Response:

|| ||| And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of ||| Americans felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we ||| are considered a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no ||| results. || || A majority of 2%.  Wow, what a huge majority. FUCK off DEMONrat asshole. You don’t seem very many Republicans whining on losing the Washington gubernatorial race by something like ONE HUNDRED votes!!!!!

Response:

> FUCK off DEMONrat asshole. You don’t seem very many Republicans whining on > losing the Washington gubernatorial race by something like ONE HUNDRED > votes!!!!!

Au contraire, fascist….   The repulbicans are crying their eyes out, asking for a new election…. Republicans are the masters of whining.  They constantly whined when Clinton was in office.  Crying…..  oohhh… why do people like Clinton. Easy equation, fella:  Clinton = jobs, Bush = economic depression Thanks, Mike

Response:

THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL INAUGURATION ADDRESS: Sometimes, you’ve just gotta laugh! Take a listen: http://img58.exs.cx/img58/853/bush1wc.swf (takes a couple of seconds to load)

Response:

|| ||| ||| FUCK off DEMONrat asshole. You don’t seem very many Republicans ||| whining on losing the Washington gubernatorial race by something ||| like ONE HUNDRED votes!!!!! ||| || || Au contraire, fascist….   The repulbicans are crying their eyes || out, asking for a new election…. || || Republicans are the masters of whining.  They constantly whined when || Clinton was in office.  Crying…..  oohhh… why do people like || Clinton. || || Easy equation, fella:  Clinton = jobs, Bush = economic depression Mike = total asshole loser || || Thanks, || || Mike

Response:

> I wonder why, of all the many government agencies, it’s always the military > that does the parading and has all the brass bands and stuff.   IMHO, > there’s really no particular reason why the Education, Treasury, or Social > Security department or even the Post office do the ceremonial stuff. > Actually, since the Post Office routinely delivers stuff, seems to me they > ought to be the ones to deliver the President from point A to point B. > JMHO . . . > -Tock

Hmmmm….. I remember a news story, a while back, about the distraught widow of a military man who had mailed her husband’s ashes to Washington D.C. for burial at Arlington National Cemetery.  The postal service managed to lose them enroute!  (The box arrived, but the urn of ashes was gone.) With that in mind, maybe they SHOULD be in charge of presidential delivery.  I think a lot of Americans, along with most of the rest of the world, would not be too distressed if he’d never made it to his innauguration. (Except that then we’d have Cheney – the best anti-assassination insurance Dubya could have!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans > felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered > a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results.

That’s what we’re TOLD, but given the admitted unreliability of the electronic voting machines, and all the questionable tactics in areas with large minority populations….  Was it REALLY a "majority of Americans", or did the machines "tweak" the results so Mr. Diebold (the manufacturer) could keep his promise to GWB to "deliver the vote"?   I had more faith in my fellow citizens than those election results bore out (IF genuine). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

rk." > Hey, you wanted him.

Only fifty-two percent of us did (IF the election results were legitimate).  Forty-eight percent definitely DID NOT!   > You got him. Alas!    We’ll see how folks feel about it > after the next 4 years.

We’ll see if we’re still a democracy, after the next four years.  Some of us have our doubts.

Response:

> > He got over 50%, that’s a majority.  Clinton, twice, did not get over 50%, > what were you saying then? > A head count ?  :-)

We were promised, OK threatened, with 10,000s of thousands lining the ceremonial route in DC today… all turning their backs as the possession past them in an act defiant solidarity…. 57+ million voted, in minority, against Bush… only some 500+ showed up to protest President Bush’s inauguration today… Michael Jackson gets more than that at one of his pre-trial hearings…. jay Thu Jan 20, 2005 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> As for the 49%, I pity you poor bastards. All I can suggest is to > move! Whining will do you no good.

We can’t afford to cause he has tanked the dollar!

Response:

>>>And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans >>felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered >>a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results. > A majority of 2%.  Wow, what a huge majority. >He got over 50%, that’s a majority.  Clinton, twice, did not get over 50%, >what were you saying then?

I was saying "How can it get any worse than the American people actually voting a low-life draft-dodger into the White House?" I found out.  Twice. –Vic

Response:

>And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans >felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered >a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results. > A majority of 2%.  Wow, what a huge majority.

He got over 50%, that’s a majority.  Clinton, twice, did not get over 50%, what were you saying then?

Response:

> He got over 50%, that’s a majority.  Clinton, twice, did not get over 50%, > what were you saying then?

A head count ?  :-)

Response:

> Welcome to the Fifth Term of the Ronald Reagan Administration

And what does this have to do with recreational air travel?  Nothing.  Keep it out of here.

Response:

>And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans >felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered >a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results.

The majority of Americans did not vote for him.  However, the majority of votes cast were for him.  Note that if FL had gone the other way, W would be unemployed.  Also note that the majority of Florida is old people that could really give a shit what the country is like 10 years from now.  They figure they will be dead by then… Manwhile, the W crew ise going to spend more and more while taking in less and less.  I am no rocket scientist, but if you spend more than you make, you will have a problem sooner or later.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans >> felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered >> a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results. >To quote Homer Simpson (who is smarter then G.W.): >"When are people going to learn? Democracy doesn’t work." >Hey, you wanted him.  You got him.  We’ll see how folks feel about it >after the next 4 years. >There are too many of you to fight.  I’ll be laughing when you folks >start crying aobut the debt burden and deficit spending and your taxes >going UP instead of down, because of the way these guys will manipulate >the tax code…. >I’m just going to sit back and watch…  We’ll see who gets the last laugh! >Thanks, >Mike >While you’re sitting back laughing, please don’t forget that 49% of us >did not vote for him.  We did our level best, within the constraints >of our democracy, to kick him out.  We came close, very close.  Still, >we’re stuck with him for the next four years, and are not any happier >about that than the rest of the world.

Sitting back and laughing is about the only satisfaction some of us can gain from this spectacle. As for the 49%, I pity you poor bastards. All I can suggest is to move! Whining will do you no good. — — DFM – http://www.deepfriedmars.com — —

Response:

I wonder why, of all the many government agencies, it’s always the military that does the parading and has all the brass bands and stuff.   IMHO, there’s really no particular reason why the Education, Treasury, or Social Security department or even the Post office do the ceremonial stuff. Actually, since the Post Office routinely delivers stuff, seems to me they ought to be the ones to deliver the President from point A to point B. JMHO . . . -Tock

Response:

> I have just watched the Inauguration live. > In several thousand words, Bush actually said absolutely nothing. > Empty phrases.

Did you actually expect him to say something profound?  The man’s an idiot.  I’d be suprised if his IQ was over 80. > But he did wipe off half the nation when praising the Union forces in the > ACW!

I guess that was "reaching out" to the blue states.  That’s all the reaching out we are going to get.  They are planning to eliminate local tax deductions for income tax, which will hit the blue states the hardest.  Let’s face it, the South finally won the civil war. Thanks, Mike

Response:

And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results.

Response:

hahaha– send him Media Mail!!!!!! The slower the better…..synonymous with his speaking skills….. Peggy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wonder why, of all the many government agencies, it’s always the military > that does the parading and has all the brass bands and stuff.   IMHO, > there’s really no particular reason why the Education, Treasury, or Social > Security department or even the Post office do the ceremonial stuff. > Actually, since the Post Office routinely delivers stuff, seems to me they > ought to be the ones to deliver the President from point A to point B. > JMHO . . . > -Tock

Response:

> And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans > felt that he should be reelected.

So you’ve been told.  It’s debatable. I guess that’s why we are considered > a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results.

True dat. Action time.

Response:

> And yet, with all of the Democratic bitching, the majority of Americans > felt that he should be reelected.  I guess that’s why we are considered > a DEMOCRACY.  Bitching with no action gets no results.

To quote Homer Simpson (who is smarter then G.W.): "When are people going to learn? Democracy doesn’t work." Hey, you wanted him.  You got him.  We’ll see how folks feel about it after the next 4 years. There are too many of you to fight.  I’ll be laughing when you folks start crying aobut the debt burden and deficit spending and your taxes going UP instead of down, because of the way these guys will manipulate the tax code…. I’m just going to sit back and watch…  We’ll see who gets the last laugh! Thanks, Mike

Response:

Welcome to the Fifth Term of the Ronald Reagan Administration The Gipper Lives! Back then it was Iran/Contra Now it’s Iraq/Osama Life in the Alzheimer Era "Mistakes?  I didn’t make any mistakes.  And if I did I don’t remember!"

Response:

> Welcome to the Fifth Term of the Ronald Reagan Administration > The Gipper Lives! > Back then it was Iran/Contra > Now it’s Iraq/Osama > Life in the Alzheimer Era > "Mistakes?  I didn’t make any mistakes.  And if I did I don’t remember!"

I have just watched the Inauguration live. In several thousand words, Bush actually said absolutely nothing. Empty phrases. But he did wipe off half the nation when praising the Union forces in the ACW! Surreyman

Response:

Question:

> > This puts the 380 on roughly the same order of magnitude as very fuel > > efficient cars > Actually, no. There are diesel cars which burn 3 litres of diesel on 100 > kilometers for the *entire car*. Which means 3 litres for 4 passengers, > or even 5 if you accept to be stuffed like in an airplane. > Hard to fit five passengers into a modern car. Usually there are two > seats in the front and three seatbelt positions in the rear, for a total > of five occupants, one of whom is the driver.

And the cars that only takes 3 liters for 100 KM is not the biggest cars either… If you are to compare such a car with four passengers then you would also have to compare that to a A380 with a full maximum load of some 800 pax. Nik

Response:

> But indeed, the comparison is of limited value, as anyone would find > out who’d try to drive his VW from the US to Europe.

I dunno. Russian roads aren’t interstates, but they are certainly present.

Response:

says… >If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more >efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are >going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers >compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus. > More efficient in fuel-per-passenger-mile?  Doubtful.

The A380 doesn’t need 110 pilots to carry 440 passengers. Huge manpower savings.

Response:

>says… > >If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more > >efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are > >going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers > >compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus. > More efficient in fuel-per-passenger-mile?  Doubtful. >The A380 doesn’t need 110 pilots to carry 440 passengers. Huge manpower >savings.

True, but it does need more pilots than 110 passenger cars do. Small manpower savings to the cars! <G> — Alex — Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->says… >> >If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more >> >efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are >> >going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers >> >compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus. >> More efficient in fuel-per-passenger-mile?  Doubtful. >The A380 doesn’t need 110 pilots to carry 440 passengers. Huge manpower >savings. > True, but it does need more pilots than 110 passenger cars do.

How do you work that out? Two pilots versus 110 drivers – the plane clearly has the edge in manpower efficiency.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >says… > >> >If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more > >> >efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are > >> >going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers > >> >compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus. > >> More efficient in fuel-per-passenger-mile?  Doubtful. > >The A380 doesn’t need 110 pilots to carry 440 passengers. Huge manpower > >savings. > True, but it does need more pilots than 110 passenger cars do. >How do you work that out? Two pilots versus 110 drivers – the plane >clearly has the edge in manpower efficiency.

Easy. If 550 people need to get somewhere, the odds are minuscule that any of them are qualified to fly the 380, so they almost certainly will be required to hire a crew (not just pilots). The probability that at least 110 of them are qualified to drive a car is huge, so they will not likely have to hire anyone to make their trip by auto. And they certainly won’t have to hire any pilots! Did you notice the <G> on my original post? No one is taking this seriously. One would have to factor in the time taken by all of the passengers to travel by car versus plane, which would yield a huge advantage to air travel. — Alex — Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Response:

> But indeed, the comparison is of limited value, as anyone would find > out who’d try to drive his VW from the US to Europe.

The comparison has meaning from an environmental point of view. Planes have often been portrayed as being extremely energy inefficient, consuming vastly more fuel per passenger than cars and generating plenty of pollution. This puts the 380 on roughly the same order of magnitude as very fuel efficient cars, and gives the A380 better fuel economy per pax that average US vehicles (which I think is more than 10 litres per 100km).

Response:

> This puts the 380 on roughly the same order of magnitude as very fuel > efficient cars

Actually, no. There are diesel cars which burn 3 litres of diesel on 100 kilometers for the *entire car*. Which means 3 litres for 4 passengers, or even 5 if you accept to be stuffed like in an airplane. Stefan

Response:

> > This puts the 380 on roughly the same order of magnitude as very fuel > efficient cars > Actually, no. There are diesel cars which burn 3 litres of diesel on 100 > kilometers for the *entire car*. Which means 3 litres for 4 passengers, > or even 5 if you accept to be stuffed like in an airplane.

Hard to fit five passengers into a modern car. Usually there are two seats in the front and three seatbelt positions in the rear, for a total of five occupants, one of whom is the driver.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >a fuel efficient diesel car. >Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a >question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger >mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many >passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as >much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical >passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g., >450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load >of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile. >Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant >than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect >there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15 >liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel, >if 1.5 is the average load of the car.

Exactly. Commercial aircraft, and especially long-haul commercial aircraft operating the sorts of routes for which the 380 is designed have far higher occupancy rates than cars, so the number of seats a car has is irrelevant. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

>But indeed, the comparison is of limited value,

Right.  Although it considers fuel efficiency, it fails to address the difference in speed.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– > Hash: SHA1 >    Well, here we go, guys. It’s tomorrow, streamed live on Airbus’ > website. ZDF (Zweite Deutsche Fernsehen, Ch. 2, Germany) and CNN > International are going to be covering it as well. Starts tomorrow at > 10am GMT (2am PST). Agenda as follows (times are GMT): > 07:30                       > Joint press conference with Noel Forgeard, Airbus President and Chief > Executive Officer, and A380 customer Chief Executive Officers. > 10:00 (with live video feed on airbus.com site) Arrival of Heads of   > State and Governments       >    - Mr Jacques Chirac,President of the French Republic >    - The Right Honourable Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United >      Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland >    - His Excellency Mr Gerhard Schroder, Chancellor of the Federal >      Republic of Germany >    - His Excellency Mr Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, President of the >      Government of the Spanish Kingdom > 11:05 [with live video feed on airbus.com site] >    - Beginning of ceremony. >    - Aircraft Reveal. >    - Inauguration of the aircraft. > 11:35 End of ceremony. >    All feeds will be available at > http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp . >    Enjoy. >                                                    BL. > – — > Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead!  | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto >   PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569  F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF > —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) > iD8DBQFB7GPCyBkZmuMZ8L8RAvp9AKD4eHgJifiUj5ug5EbHz1WswuMdAACfcjbc > KtKO1b3wGgUz04XsnisDjvc= > =ra8X > —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

I recorded it. 2 hours of circus, stuffed shirts, talking heads and enough hot air to levitate the entire A380 production for the next 10 years. The whole program must have overrun, my recorder switched off before the plane even got shown. What a disappointment. I finally got to see the plane in the evening news. Nice paint scheme, but "rollout"? The plane didn’t move one inch. T.

Response:

> > BBC started to cover the ceremony, but decided to switch back to news. > It is currently on BBC News 24.

BBC World did bring it back. Quite the celebration for Europe to have managed such a large project together. It was interesting to see the windows progressively light up in the dark. So far, all the images had been of the 380 in daylight. But seing it lighted up made it look pretty neat and not so disproportionate.

Response:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to a fuel efficient diesel car.

Response:

>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >a fuel efficient diesel car.

How many passengers would such a car carry?

Response:

>>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >a fuel efficient diesel car. >How many passengers would such a car carry?

Not a relevant statistic either. Factor in the average load factor of a fuel efficient diesal car and an A380 and then you might have a more meaningful figure. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

>>>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >>The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >>a fuel efficient diesel car. >How many passengers would such a car carry? >Not a relevant statistic either.

Given the OP’s comparative statement above, the implied "statistic" was apparently relevant to her. >Factor in the average load factor of a fuel efficient diesal car >and an A380 and then you might have a more meaningful figure.

Meaningful in what way?  Am I to infer, that you find the metric of fuel-per-passenger-mile irrelevant?

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >>>The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >>>a fuel efficient diesel car. >>How many passengers would such a car carry? >Not a relevant statistic either. > Given the OP’s comparative statement above, the implied "statistic" > was apparently relevant to her. >Factor in the average load factor of a fuel efficient diesal car >and an A380 and then you might have a more meaningful figure. > Meaningful in what way?  Am I to infer, that you find the metric of > fuel-per-passenger-mile irrelevant?

If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >says… > >>>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: > >>>The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to > >>>a fuel efficient diesel car. > >>How many passengers would such a car carry? > >Not a relevant statistic either. > Given the OP’s comparative statement above, the implied "statistic" > was apparently relevant to her. > >Factor in the average load factor of a fuel efficient diesal car > >and an A380 and then you might have a more meaningful figure. > Meaningful in what way?  Am I to infer, that you find the metric of > fuel-per-passenger-mile irrelevant? >If you look at the number of passengers, then the A380 is vastly more >efficient, because unless a car carries hundreds of passengers, you are >going to have hundreds of drivers and comparatively few passengers >compared to two pilots and hundreds passengers on the Airbus.

More efficient in fuel-per-passenger-mile?  Doubtful.  

Response:

Larry, > How many passengers would such a car carry?

four, including the driver. Available from Volkswagen in Germany as we speak. See http://showrooms.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/showro oms/de/lupo/lupo_3l_tdi/home.frameset_outer.html But indeed, the comparison is of limited value, as anyone would find out who’d try to drive his VW from the US to Europe. — Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Response:

>Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar: >The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to >a fuel efficient diesel car.

Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g., 450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile. Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15 liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel, if 1.5 is the average load of the car. — Alex — Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Response:

> http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp .

Has anyone been able to get any image/video feed from Airbus’s terrible web site ? BBC started to cover the ceremony, but decided to switch back to news.

Response:

> http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp . > Has anyone been able to get any image/video feed from Airbus’s terrible > web site ? > BBC started to cover the ceremony, but decided to switch back to news.

It is currently on BBC News 24. JohnT

Response:

>> http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp . >Has anyone been able to get any image/video feed from Airbus’s terrible >web site ?

No, but you can see it at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news >BBC started to cover the ceremony, but decided to switch back to news.

It is being broadcast on ZDF, Euronews and CNN in Europe –==++AJC++==–

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1         Well, here we go, guys. It’s tomorrow, streamed live on Airbus’ website. ZDF (Zweite Deutsche Fernsehen, Ch. 2, Germany) and CNN International are going to be covering it as well. Starts tomorrow at 10am GMT (2am PST). Agenda as follows (times are GMT): 07:30                       Joint press conference with Noel Forgeard, Airbus President and Chief Executive Officer, and A380 customer Chief Executive Officers. 10:00 (with live video feed on airbus.com site) Arrival of Heads of   State and Governments          - Mr Jacques Chirac,President of the French Republic    - The Right Honourable Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United      Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland    - His Excellency Mr Gerhard Schroder, Chancellor of the Federal      Republic of Germany    - His Excellency Mr Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, President of the      Government of the Spanish Kingdom 11:05 [with live video feed on airbus.com site]    - Beginning of ceremony.    - Aircraft Reveal.    - Inauguration of the aircraft. 11:35 End of ceremony.         All feeds will be available at http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp .         Enjoy.                                                         BL. – — Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead!  | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto   PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569  F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB7GPCyBkZmuMZ8L8RAvp9AKD4eHgJifiUj5ug5EbHz1WswuMdAACfcjbc KtKO1b3wGgUz04XsnisDjvc= =ra8X —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Question:

> Unfortunately I can’t link to this message

Hi Mike, The link was to a usenet posting made by someone in Finland, so even if your browser could display it unless you can read Finnish I don’t think it would help.  It displayed as gibberish to me. Sorry about that. However, I did enter… +"Jim Crow laws" +"air travel" +"Jim Crow laws" +airlines …into google and got some hits, particularly this thread: http://www.h-net.org/~south/archives/threads/airlines.html Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada

Response:

I can’t get an answer to this question on google.  Does anyone know if flights in the South (for example New Orleans to Birmingham) were segregated like buses or railroads were under the Jim Crow laws? Any information would be appreciated.

Response:

Question:

Why do you insist posting off-topic articles related to everything but air travel? This group is CLEARLY (and americans, in your native language) marked as being related to air travel. Posting articles about Bush, terrorism, moving to Canada or whatever else to here should be another indicator for the much debated level of IQ of americans. And I think that these brainless off topic posters represent a (somehow) higher IQ level or vision compared to an average american, as they (hopefully) are aware that there is a world outside US. When I imagine the average american then, I feel very lucky about being european.

Response:

> Why do you insist posting off-topic articles related to everything but > air travel? > This group is CLEARLY (and americans, in your native language) marked > as being related to air travel. Posting articles about Bush, > terrorism, moving to Canada or whatever else to here should be another > indicator for the much debated level of IQ of americans. > And I think that these brainless off topic posters represent a > (somehow) higher IQ level or vision compared to an average american, > as they (hopefully) are aware that there is a world outside US. > When I imagine the average american then, I feel very lucky about > being european.

If I’m reading your post correctly, you’re blaming Americans for off topic posts.  A bit more research on your end is needed.  things aren’t what they seem.– "ST" "Everywhere is within walking distance,   if you have the time"   (-Steven Wright-)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why do you insist posting off-topic articles related to everything but > air travel? > This group is CLEARLY (and americans, in your native language) marked > as being related to air travel. Posting articles about Bush, > terrorism, moving to Canada or whatever else to here should be another > indicator for the much debated level of IQ of americans. > And I think that these brainless off topic posters represent a > (somehow) higher IQ level or vision compared to an average american, > as they (hopefully) are aware that there is a world outside US. > When I imagine the average american then, I feel very lucky about > being european. > If I’m reading your post correctly, you’re blaming Americans for off topic > posts.  A bit more research on your end is needed.  things aren’t what they > seem.–

Such as the European posting off-topic, for example?

Response:

Question:

> Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at > the > headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t come > from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations.

Whoever they are, they have ruined this a newsgroup on air travel. Faking someone else id just makes it worse. It is not baseless or idiotic to criticise the messages and their real senders. Any chance of starting a new newsgroup really about travel?!

Response:

> Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at > the > headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t come > from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations. > Whoever they are, they have ruined this a newsgroup on air travel. > Faking someone else id just makes it worse. > It is not baseless or idiotic to criticise the messages and their real > senders. > Any chance of starting a new newsgroup really about travel?!

I think it is about time for someone to do mass cancels of all off topic posts to r.t.a. dennis

Response:

> Whoever they are, they have ruined this a newsgroup on air travel. > Faking someone else id just makes it worse. > It is not baseless or idiotic to criticise the messages and their real > senders. > Any chance of starting a new newsgroup really about travel?!

Certainly has raised a problem, and illustrated one of the real weak points of newsgroups like this. This group has been useful enough to me in the past, however, that I’m not ready to be pushed out of it, not just yet, anyway.   My filter list for the group now extends to several hundred lines which auto-kill many of the worst-offending topics, as well as many key words ("Clinton", "Bush", "Kerry", "Rove", just for starters), and some of the most unpleasant posters, who won’t get through no matter what they post on. A few months from now I hope to be able to delete all of these filters, and start over.

Response:

>I think it is about time for someone to do mass cancels of all off topic >posts to r.t.a.

That probably isn’t very effective. Most NSPs have long since stopped honoring cancels as they are easily spoofed. Even if they did work, it just escalates. Best thing to do is ignore them and not respond to those threads. That and set up some good filters for the more obvious words. Eventually they go on to another group to look for a reaction.

Response:

Best thing to do is ignore them and not respond to those threads. That and set up some good filters for the more obvious words. Eventually they go on to another group to look for a reaction. Thats probably the Best.   Ignore and Time. Really sucks. RTA has been a big help to me in the past.

Response:

I think JF may be on to something – misc.travel.air-industry – it is a moderated newsgroup that has apparently "died."  Let’s try to reactivate it. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at >> the >> headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t >> come >> from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations. > Whoever they are, they have ruined this a newsgroup on air travel. > Faking someone else id just makes it worse. > It is not baseless or idiotic to criticise the messages and their real > senders. > Any chance of starting a new newsgroup really about travel?! > I think it is about time for someone to do mass cancels of all off topic > posts to r.t.a. > dennis

Response:

> I think JF may be on to something – misc.travel.air-industry – it is a > moderated newsgroup that has apparently "died."  Let’s try to reactivate it.

Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling here is one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is… — Best Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jeff >>> Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at >>> the >>> headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t >>> come >>> from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations. >> Whoever they are, they have ruined this a newsgroup on air travel. >> Faking someone else id just makes it worse. >> It is not baseless or idiotic to criticise the messages and their real >> senders. >> Any chance of starting a new newsgroup really about travel?! > I think it is about time for someone to do mass cancels of all off topic > posts to r.t.a. > dennis

Response:

> Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a > moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling here is > one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is…

Apart from your constant insults and verbatim reposting  of Nomen Nescio’s posts, what have you contributed to this newsgroup that was air related ??????

Response:

>> Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a > moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling here is > one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is… >Apart from your constant insults and verbatim reposting  of Nomen Nescio’s >posts, what have you contributed to this newsgroup that was air related ??????

It really galls you, JF/John Doe/nobody, that someone can see you for who you really are, doesn’t it? You have managed to fool a lot of people in a lot of newsgroups, but you can’t fool all the people all the time.

Response:

>> Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a > moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling here is > one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is… >Apart from your constant insults and verbatim reposting  of Nomen Nescio’s >posts, what have you contributed to this newsgroup that was air related ??????

Laughing at you is a great contribution. Haven’t you heard?  Laughter is the best medicine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a >> moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling here is >> one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is… >Apart from your constant insults and verbatim reposting  of Nomen Nescio’s >posts, what have you contributed to this newsgroup that was air related ?????? > Laughing at you is a great contribution. > Haven’t you heard?  Laughter is the best medicine.

Yup…it’s true…it sure beats foaming at the mouth…I mean who would YOU rather be – Sheryl Mexic or Connie Wong…??? — Best Greg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Now there’s a laugh – JF Mezei wouldn’t be allowed anywhere *near* a > >> moderated newsgroup.  After all, his relentless off – topic trolling >here is > >> one of the reasons rta is in the sorry shape it is… > >Apart from your constant insults and verbatim reposting  of Nomen >Nescio’s > >posts, what have you contributed to this newsgroup that was air related >?????? > Laughing at you is a great contribution. > Haven’t you heard?  Laughter is the best medicine. >Yup…it’s true…it sure beats foaming at the mouth…I mean who would YOU >rather be – Sheryl Mexic or Connie Wong…???

Maybe we can get Miss Connie Wong to chop JF up into 100 pieces and serve him to Sheryl at Miyako for lunch…..

Response:

Hi all Just wondering if we still can call this newsgroup rec.travel.air. This week especially I have found less on here to do with air than ever before. Michael

Response:

> Hi all > Just wondering if we still can call this newsgroup rec.travel.air. > This week especially I have found less on here to do with air than > ever before.

I pledge to do my part. When JF Mezei and his fellow hatemongers spam an off-topic thread here, from now on I’ll ignore it.

Response:

> Hi all > Just wondering if we still can call this newsgroup rec.travel.air. > This week especially I have found less on here to do with air than > ever before. > I pledge to do my part. When JF Mezei and his fellow hatemongers spam an > off-topic thread here, from now on I’ll ignore it.

Count me in, too.  I’ll try to ignore JF et al.  Maybe we can make rec.travel.air just that again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at the headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t come from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations.

Response:

> Before you accuse anyone in this newsgroup, perhaps you need to look at > the > headers of the first post in a thread to see where it came or didn’t come > from. You are the idiots by making such baseless accusations.

I don’t care where the original post came from. They’re cross-posted here and they’ve absolutely destroyed this group.

Response: